RESOLVED!!!! PS3 steamer slows down when I turn smoke on

Smoke takes more power, and may drop the available voltage.  Got some questions.

Are you running in command or conventional mode?

What transformer are you using?

How much voltage is applied to the track?

H1000 posted:

Smoke takes more power, and may drop the available voltage.  Got some questions.

Are you running in command or conventional mode?

What transformer are you using?

How much voltage is applied to the track?

Yes! Sometimes an engine will find any weakness on the layout. It could also be an internal problem like a power wire not making full contact, board, or tether issue. Is this the only engine that slows with smoke on?

Hopefully, the elements aren't shorting to the sides or you'll have bigger issues very quick. Did you repack the smoke unit recently?

Which engine Walt? I have had conventional liquid smoke resistors short internally - both gradually, & some suddenly. Sometimes while running, tremendous smoke and then slowing down of the locomotive, sometimes a breaker trip.

My MTH Berkshire(conventional / QS-2+) sucks a lot of additional power with smoke on, but it's always done that from day 1.

It just could be as posted above it is showing a shortcoming in the power delivery.

H1000 posted:

Smoke takes more power, and may drop the available voltage.  Got some questions.

Are you running in command or conventional mode?

What transformer are you using?

How much voltage is applied to the track?

command mode.  Using the same trannie that I've always used, successfully: an MRC dual 270

I run with 16 volts since it's level.

It's never slowed down before, including just a week ago.

thanks - walt

Engineer-Joe posted:

H1000 posted:

Smoke takes more power, and may drop the available voltage.  Got some questions.

Are you running in command or conventional mode?

What transformer are you using?

How much voltage is applied to the track?

Yes! Sometimes an engine will find any weakness on the layout. It could also be an internal problem like a power wire not making full contact, board, or tether issue. Is this the only engine that slows with smoke on?

Hopefully, the elements aren't shorting to the sides or you'll have bigger issues very quick. Did you repack the smoke unit recently?

Hi Joe

I have not dismantled the engine or tender and I have not repacked the unit.

Since I have not touched the internals I don't think a wire came loose.  I guess it could happen but I didn't cause it to happen if it did.

The engine was smoking and running perfectly a few days prior - I don't often use smoke but have a few times this year on my Christmas Layout.  Just started out of nowhere

thanks - walt

ADCX Rob posted:

Which engine Walt? I have had conventional liquid smoke resistors short internally - both gradually, & some suddenly. Sometimes while running, tremendous smoke and then slowing down of the locomotive, sometimes a breaker trip.

My MTH Berkshire(conventional / QS-2+) sucks a lot of additional power with smoke on, but it's always done that from day 1.

It just could be as posted above it is showing a shortcoming in the power delivery.

Hi Rob.

Here's the set:

It's a PS3 set.

I forgot to respond to another question that was asked.  I do have another PS3 steamer, the baby blue comet, and it runs perfectly with smoke on.  I'll have to try this again to confirm: but as I recall the engine did NOT slow down when I first hit the "smoke on" button but only slowed when the smoke actually started to come out.  I think.

always something

- walt

The DCS remote or WiFi app can help troubleshoot a little bit. The engine can measure the voltage for you, it is one of the soft key menu items (usually found under "more")

Make a couple runs around with the smoke off and the remote feeding back the voltage, it should auto update the voltage reading about every two seconds. Next time around turn on the smoke and check the voltage readout on your remote.  If you notice the problem gets worse in some spots and better in others, the voltage readout should reflect those conditions.  Note that just because you MRC reads 16 volts, that doesn't mean the engine readout will match that value.

Also, it is perfectly safe to run these engines with 18 or 19 volts, but 16 should give an acceptable performance.  If you see a significant drop in measured voltage from DCS remote, it could be an internal problem. Running with a PH180 bricks, my engines will read just under 18 volts and drop to 16.5 or so when the smoke is turned on. With multiple engines running smoke on the same main line, I've seen it get down to 15.3 at a few spots. 

You Transformer should be more than enough to handle the job, but do keep an eye on that amp meter. High amperage draw when you turn on smoke could also mean an internal problem with the smoke unit. On my layout, the smoke units usually add about 0.8 to 1.3 extra amps of draw depending on where the smoke volume is set.

Thanks H1000.

Yes, I have monitored the track voltage using the DCS remote so I'll try you're suggestion.  I don't think it's the track since the issue is universal on the layout.  But your suggestion of watching the ammeter on my MRC isn't something that I thought of so thanks for that tip.

Also thanks for commenting about the Amperage jump on your layout when you turn your smoke unit on.  THat will  be meaningful to me.

thanks again - walt

H1000 - your 2 suggestions helped me resolve that train's slowing down issue.  a BIG thank you!!!!

The first test that I did was watch my ammeter.  Turned on the smoke and it only jumped about 1/4 AMP, not much more that's for sure.  GREAT news I thought.

Next test: i used the remote to get a voltage reading from the engine.  Not good news.  It was showing only 14.4v and that was consistent all around the layout.  So I turned the MRC up until the reading showing on the remote was 16.5, turned on the smoke, and the train ran PERFECTLY!!!!!

WHEW, I thought I was facing another $250 repair but thanks to this forum I'm not.

As Always, thanks to everyone for pitching in with ideas - Walt

Great to Hear Walt!

Have a Merry Christmas!!

Walt, we have been using with the Z4000 with remote plug in which it then only displays the set voltage. When running and using the handles to manually set the voltage the displays read output volts and amps. It is amazing how much power some things eat up.

Glad you solved the issue and looking forward to Walt's Christmas Layout 2018!

thanks H1000 and BobbyD