Pump for Oil Fired Engines

LMGTFY

http://www.trainorders.com/dis...n/read.php?10,587287

Tommy posted:

When oil fired engines were cold was there an electrical pump to deliver fuel to the Firefox? Did the engines carry batteries for this pump?

Here's a look at an old-style steam atomising oil burner: 

http://cliffside110.forumotion...-sante-fe-oil-burner

There's a type where oil dribbled under gravity through a slot in the burner assembly, and a steam jet below it atomised the oil flow - all done mechanically, no electrics. Starting off on lighter oil then switching to heavy oil when warmed up was one practice seen.

See about 1/2 way down this page:

http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/blclas.Html

and some oil-burning operator's comments here: 

http://www.rypn.org/forums/vie....php?f=1&t=23440

Hope this helps.

Tommy,

To answer your question, no, no electronics are used to fire an oil-fired boiler. On the engine I fire, the oil is gravity-fed to the burner (a version of the Von Boden-Ingalls burner as shown in Firewood's post above). We use used crankcase oil, which is significantly less viscous than Bunker C, which isn't used much, if any, these days.

I can get the oil to flow even when the temperatures are below freezing. Once I get some pressure on the gauge, I can direct steam to a coil in the fuel tank to heat up the oil. Back in the day, they liked to get the oil to about body temperature for best flow.

Without reading through all the various links provided above, in simple terms:

1) Except for the Southern Pacific cab forward locomotives, ALL oil fired steam locomotives have the oil gravity fed from the tender oil bunker, through the Fireman firing valve, and then to the burner. The SP cab forwards have the oil bunker in the tender pressurized (very low pressure air, less than 15 psi) due to the very long run of piping from the tender all the way forward to the Fireman's firing valve and then into the burner.

2) originally, when the bunker fuels were being used, the fuel HAD to have been steam heated, in order for the fuel to even flow, let alone ignite & burn. Thus, any oil fired steam locomotive that did not have access to external steam supply, could NOT be fired up, since the bunker fuel was cold. Once the bunker fuel was hot, the Hostler or Fireman would simply allow a small pool of oil to flow from the burner to the floor of the firepan. The a large wad of cotton waste could be soaked in Kerosene or "stove oil", ignited with a fusee, and tossed through the open fire door into the pool of oil on the floor of the firepan. Once there was sufficient oil burning on the floor of the firepan, the firing valve could be opened slightly, the atomizer turned on slightly, and POOF there was now a burning flame of oil in the firebox.

Thanks. I was especially curious about viscous fuel. Hot water answered that nicely.

Kelly Anderson posted:

Hot Water posted:

2) originally, when the bunker fuels were being used, the fuel HAD to have been steam heated, in order for the fuel to even flow, let alone ignite & burn. Thus, any oil fired steam locomotive that did not have access to external steam supply, could NOT be fired up, since the bunker fuel was cold.

A backwoods technique for starting up a cold oil burner was to initially get steam up by burning wood in the firebox.  once a few pounds of steam was raised and the oil was heated, the wood fire was let burn out, then was raked out of the fire pan through the air inlet, and the oil fire was started.  It wasn't a pleasant task, but it could be done with no compressed air for the blower or anything.  One had to be careful about throwing sparks until all of the embers were out of the firebox, though.

Probably worked well for very small locomotives, however it would have taken days of burning wood in a large AT&SF, SP, or UP oil burner to raise enough steam pressure required to heat the bunker fuel to over 150 degrees. 

Incidentally, firewood, that Catskill archive reference kept me busy for hours trying to understand the relationships between various railroad designs. It was a masterpiece explaining steam locomotive design. Thanks.

At Los Angeles (Redondo Jct.) and at San Bernardino, natural gas was used to pre-heat the boiler before the Bunker C oil was warm enough to flow.  I assume that Santa Fe was not the only road that did this.  According to what the old heads told me when I was a boy Fireman, there was a connection on the outside of the engine for the gas hose.  After the steam coil in the tender had liquified some of the Bunker C, the gas hose was disconnected and then steam was raised using the firing valve.  Wood scraps were ignited with a fusee in the firebox and the bunker C was then atomized and caught fire.

When the fire was put out for a shorter period, The fire brick arch would stay hot enough to re-ignite Bunker C for a period of time, and, after it was no longer able to do that, a fusee was tossed into the firebox and Bunker C atomized over it.  Fires were not routinely extinguished while sitting in a siding to meet or be passed by other trains.  Boiler pressure had to be maintained there, in order to be ready to proceed when the superior train(s) had passed.  I'm talking about engines which tied up overnight at outlying points, such as on the Santa Ana road switcher, or work trains.  In that case, there would be an Engine Watchman, an Extra Board Fireman, sent out to periodically re-start the fire and to keep the boiler filled with water, maintaining a standby (lower) boiler pressure that would keep the air pump operating.  About an hour before the crew was to take charge of the engine, the Engine Watchman would build steam so that the engine was ready to go to work when the Engineer and Fireman climbed aboard.

There was a boiler explosion in the late 1940's at Serra, a siding near San Juan Capistrano, where a work train had tied up for the night.  The Engine Watchman decided to attend a dance on Company time, and, when he returned, there was no longer any water showing in the sight glass.  He apparently panicked and when he started to fill the boiler, the crown sheet was dry.  The engine was a 3100 Class 2-8-2, i believe. Too much dancing, not enough firing.

Number 90 posted:

 

There was a boiler explosion in the late 1940's at Serra, a siding near San Juan Capistrano, where a work train had tied up for the night.  The Engine Watchman decided to attend a dance on Company time, and, when he returned, there was no longer any water showing in the sight glass.  He apparently panicked and when he started to fill the boiler, the crown sheet was dry.  The engine was a 3100 Class 2-8-2, i believe. Too much dancing, not enough firing.

.

Rusty

Hot Water posted:

Kelly Anderson posted:

Hot Water posted:

2) originally, when the bunker fuels were being used, the fuel HAD to have been steam heated, in order for the fuel to even flow, let alone ignite & burn. Thus, any oil fired steam locomotive that did not have access to external steam supply, could NOT be fired up, since the bunker fuel was cold.

A backwoods technique for starting up a cold oil burner was to initially get steam up by burning wood in the firebox.  once a few pounds of steam was raised and the oil was heated, the wood fire was let burn out, then was raked out of the fire pan through the air inlet, and the oil fire was started.  It wasn't a pleasant task, but it could be done with no compressed air for the blower or anything.  One had to be careful about throwing sparks until all of the embers were out of the firebox, though.

Probably worked well for very small locomotives, however it would have taken days of burning wood in a large AT&SF, SP, or UP oil burner to raise enough steam pressure required to heat the bunker fuel to over 150 degrees. 

I'm not sure standard gauge oil burning locomotives in 1902 and later (when oil burning engines became economically feasible) would be considered "very small," but firing on wood until pressure was raised enough to run on steam was the accepted practice.

Haha, Rusty, I knew you would be the one to come up with a photo of poor old 2-8-2 3189. 

I was thinking more about putting out the fire and then re-igniting it, and I remembered a situation where the fire was extinguished intentionally.  I know of spurs that served munitions facilities during World War II, where the crew had to extinguish the fire before proceeding through the gate, go inside and switch the facility and not re-ignite the fire until they were outside of the fence again.  When they could not get the work done due to low steam pressure, they went outside, lighted the fire, built up another head of steam, extinguished the fire, and then went inside to do more switching.