Question about "All engines" command

Well that’s not normal behavior.  Both are one press on and one press off.  For the smoke the third line of the display should show smoke = on or = off.

Try connecting the remote directly to the TIU with a telephone receiver cord that, usually, clears up some problems.

I'll give the cord a shot, Dan. Odd that both remotes do it, though.

Try backing up your remotes on your computer first so you can try a remote factory reset. You'll lose all your settings doing it but by backing up the remotes you can easily reload them later.   Joe

how strong is the signal when all engines are getting power?

I don't use the "all engines". I really don't know fully how it works. I'm not sure if the remote needs confirmation from all the engines?

Some members here use the "all" command a lot. I only tried it, many years ago. I prefer to run a large consist as a lash-up in DCS to get the benefits of correct lighting and sounds for that train. Whenever problems like this arise on my layouts, it's usually a problem crept in and the large consist made it more obvious.

I've had switch wire paths (power) go south. The larger draw finds the weakness. The signal then suffers as well.

I’ll check signal tomorrow. Trying to help the Bills hang on to their lead now. TOUCHDOWN! Guess I helped😉

Both main lines are all 10s. Using fixed 1 and 2.

OK. Just wondering. How many engines are we talking about?

If you remove some of the engines, do the responses improve?

What is your power supply?

Any TMCC/Legacy stuff on the power? Lighted cars or accessories?

I've tested the ALL command and am not comfortable with it because sometimes a locomotive "doesn't get the memo" and fails to respond properly. This was on a track with a "10" signal. I noticed it seems to have issues as you add locomotives to the mix. I'm pretty sure there's a practical maximum, but personally, I wouldn't want to use this with more than three engines.

I have used this quite a bit.  Usually I don't run more than 3 trains on  a channel however ,my wiring is not complete.  My suggestion is to start from power on.  If you have been running an engine and you don't  give enough time for the engine to reset with power off it will remember the last direction and be ready to start in the opposite direction.  This is a great feature if you won't to showcase your trains because it makes it easy to run several trains on the same route.  Lionel does not have anything like this and for those of us with small layouts  it is great.  By the way more than 3 trains may be stretching the power limits of your channel.

@Art Lites posted:

Lionel does not have anything like this and for those of us with small layouts  it is great.  By the way more than 3 trains may be stretching the power limits of your channel.

Of course they do, Lionel uses #99 as an all-engines address.

I stand corrected good to know because I use TMCC and Legacy

Lately I have been running two MUs, one is two PS3s, the other is one PS3 and a PS2, using an MRC pure Power Dual. Each handle powers a fixed port on a RevL. I have a 5 amp thermal and 10 amp magnetic on each channel. Four engines with smoke never get to 5 amps, so I'm not too worried about overloading channels. These are ten to fifteen car trains, with an EOTD on one and an MTH lighted caboose on the other.

     Tethering one remote brought back the smoke command, but not until about 5 minutes of attempts, so no definitive answer there. The other remote  had the command show up, but it disappeared again. I may try a reset, as I only have 10 engines. I don't see any sense in cloning what I'm trying to fix. I have previously run as many as eight engines, two MUs on each channel, with the "All engines " command. I'll keep playin'. That's what trains are about.

I wonder if that transformer is an issue?

I use the “all engines” feature quite a bit and it has never given me a problem. Below is a video from last year of over 10 engines (some in a subway consist) running vía two z4000s and one tiu (ignore the trains on the floor, they are running conventional).  I usually start every train with the all engines, set a specific speed, then go to individual engines and adjust their speed slower or faster as desired. Then go back to all engines to blast all the whistles and horns for some fun. Stopping and shutdown via all engines has never failed.

Nice layout. We could see a lot more if you turn your phone 90 degrees.

I reset the remote (thanks Joe) and re-added all ten engines. Since I had the four MUs split up, I ran all ten engines on Fixed one. All the normally available commands under "All Engines" worked. The ten engines only drew 4 amps total; shows how efficient modern MTH is. Now, if I could just get an MU with a PS3 engine in to start up properly more than 50% of the time, I'd really be happy. I can't use "All Engines" for MUs, because I have to start them individually to make sure they work. Thanks for all the responses.

Well, success didn't last long. I spent the whole afternoon reloading engines, rebuilding MU consists, and changing settings in the remotes I reset. After shutting down for the night, I removed the remotes' batteries and put them in the chargers. Started everything up today, and smoke, bell, and shutdown commands don't work under "All Engines". I also reset the TIU, with no joy there , either. Both remotes have the same problem. Looks like it is just something I will have to get used to.

John, I sure hope you can get this figured out. I guess you could always just use one remote ?

@John H posted:

...Now, if I could just get an MU with a PS3 engine in to start up properly more than 50% of the time

Have you looked at the wire routing inside this engine?

Sounds like signal issues at a glance.

Joe, it's not just one engine. I run three pairs of powered engines; two with both PS3s, and one with a PS2 and a PS3. I can't ever comfortably use the start command and scroll the thumbwheel. Sometimes they start with one in conventional and I have to shut down and start over. Sometimes changing direction before moving will get them in synch. I learned that one from Clem a while ago, so I routinely use that. If the rear engine doesn't respond to that, only one will move, and I have to power down. I have routed the wires on all of them. I'm just used to it now, and make sure they both responded to the watchdog before I move them.

I'd have to suspect DCS signal strength issues with this many issues with the MU configuration.  I doubt you have that many engines failing.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd have to suspect DCS signal strength issues with this many issues with the MU configuration.  I doubt you have that many engines failing.

Mine show up more, when I add several engines on the same power. Sometimes I do it on purpose to check wiring and track conditions. The layout condition outside, can deteriorate over time. One engine will run fine. I try and build a large consist, and the results can be all over the charts.

It sounds like what you are seeing here.

If I take those same MUs checking track signal, I get all 10s. I just did it last week during another problem. 80 to 90% of the time they start up fine if I change direction first.

@John H posted:

If I take those same MUs checking track signal, I get all 10s. I just did it last week during another problem. 80 to 90% of the time they start up fine if I change direction first.

Yes, I believe you. If for example, your power supply sends power to the rails and is weakened for some reason, the signal may also suffer there.

So say for example, you have too long a run of track on a single channel, you may still have a 10 reading for signal there. When you run a certain higher amp draw right there and draw down the power, the signal may suffer. Like if you have a thinner wire or poor connection and you get away with it with a single engine. You may swear all is fine. However the instance where the draw goes higher, that area will suffer and act up.

Adding to my guess, is if this power supply is on the border of providing good clean power, yet when drawn higher, it struggles. The signal will suffer then.

I'm just guessing and trying to get you to look at this issue from a different perspective.

I gave up on the single engine ( or mu) track signal test at providing anything more than just a quick base to know that the system is working. I look at other symptoms, to clue in what is actually occurring. Dimming car lights for example is telling. Poor engine response is a great indicator that something is wrong.

You also can't go by the system's generic response messages. You have to develop troubleshooting to find the issue.

OK, here's what I have. I am using an MRC pure Power Dual, Fastrack, Fixed 1 and Fixed 2 on separate lines of about 1 scale mile each, with 10 power blocks on one and 12 on the other,of which two are yards. Ten to twelve track connections per block.

Last week when I had to re-enter all my ten engines, I ran them all at one time with no command problems and only drawing 4 amps. I just checked track signal with two MUs running, one with smoke. I had one 9 and all 10s on the whole layout.

The only response problem that I have is at startup with the PS3 engines missing the watchdog signal, and not synching in the consist, and that is very random. There doesn't seem to be a common denominator except PS3. If I power a siding after powering up through the TIU, a PS3 might or might not take off like a rocket. A PS2 might start, but pushing the startup or shutdown buttons puts them in command.

I usually run four engines on one line, and two on the other, with no command problems after I get them started. Each line has a 5 amp thermal and a 10 amp airpax magnetic breaker. Four engines with smoke  draw about 4 amps, so no problems there.