Question about enough power

I suspect the lighted passenger train is the sticking point if it still has incandescent bulbs.  Of course, the actual product number of the Super Chief would be useful here.

Sounds like you need more power drops, not more power. What do you have now?

It's the new Lionel Lionchief Santa Fe Super Chief, 6-30178.

Hey John, I am relatively new to the hobby, got in around the time Lionchief came around. Not 100 per cent what a power drop is, please advise, thanks so much!

A power drop is just a wire from transformer to the track. You stated that it stops on the inner loop. Does that mean it runs fine on the outer? I would suggest two transformer connections for each loop. Fastrack has connection terminals on each full section that take .110 spade connectors, so you can make your own.

Precisely John, train runs fine on the outer loop, where my terminal track is. 110 spade connectors, this is new territory for me, I will look into them. Thank you.

https://youtu.be/fuStJoh5Fv4

Jon

Soldering is the way to connect up, I think.  Get some 16 AWG stranded wire, tin it using a good silver-bearing solder and some (rosin core!!) flux paste, an iron and go to it.

Actually just get another terminal track and another 72w power supply.   Get a isolation track and put it between your turn outs (switches).     Then use the .110 spade connectors and run a jumper from the terminal track center rail over to the other side of the loop and hook the other end to the center rail there.  Works great!  If you are planning to stick with LC, LC+, and LC+2.0.

Jim

EDIT..    If you have purchased more than one set you already have the terminal track and probably a 54w power source.     You can use that and the only thing you need to buy is an isolation track section that is sold at about every hobby shop. 

Will the SFSC engine run on the inner loop with just the engine - no cars ?

That might help narrow down the issue.

Are you running two trains at a time , one on each loop?  

if so  you may need to get a bigger regular transformer .  you will also need at least two of the old style FT feeder tracks .  

Hi There again 

Fast track feeder   part #6-12016

GW-180 transformer  part#6-37947  (  180 watts of power )  

I see your running with a 72 watt DC wall wart. DO NOT mix AC & DC on your tracks.

Most Lionel transformers are AC

Wow, thanks for all the responses! As I noted early, kinda new to the hobby, bought a RTR set in 2013 and been growing it every year since.  But it's been buy it, un-box it, run it! I guess it's time to kick the hobby up a notch and try some of these suggestions! 

Richie C., that's a good question, I didn't try that, remove some or all of the passengers cars - will try that this weekend.

Thanks!

Watts are combined measurement of amps and volts. Amps are a bit more useful to us normally imo. Amp are the max that trips most breakers. 8a a 6v or 8a at 12v isn't much of a factor here. You have X amps available from a Y watt transformer(at Zvolt). The loco uses about 1-4a.(maybe 5 on initial split second start up peaks) Bulb's amp use varies a lot, but is a given per bulb's number(a numbering standard) and can be added up... say 1 bulb at 0.25a at 14v x 4 bulbs= 1a + 4a(loco..kinda high)= so about a 5a train at 12-14v..likely close to your max. (some bulbs have watts on the base, some have amps, all list voltage or #....ideally anyhow. So everything has an amp draw and is #2 right after voltage maximum output, which can vary 6v-30v, mostly 12v-20v maxiums in O, mostly universal AC/DC, but some DC only...Few AC only...and they wouldn't toast on DC. (AC motor on DC is ok. DC motor motor on AC is toast (unless the ac is first changed to dc by diode/bridge rectifer, board, etc. like command or eunit boards) I consider 70-90w barely enough for med-lrg PW, bigger or mutiple engines, heavy loads or passenger cars... lights add up fast at usually 2 per car. In comparison, more for fun as you run command....two 90w vs a single 180w with 2 throttles. 90w at 6a/180w at 10a. The 90w has a 6a max. but won't be using the max amps at all times. The full 10a of the 180w is available to either throttle, amps split by demand alone. So even with two locos running, if the amp output isn't exceeded by the total draw of two throttles(they'd get 5a each all motor parts equal). However, more than 6a is readily available should either motor begin to need it. I.e. the same max output, but excess power up to 10a, is freely shared to a harder working motor. The amp is the bulk fuel available and amount used, voltage is the speed its fed The wire size can only deliver X amps per ft. AWG tables list wire size max amps (very important) at X volt(semi important to us) per foot. Oversize is ok. Undersized is bad. Heavier Bus wire should carry a transformers full load, fuseing it isn't a bad idea. Lighter wire off that bus, for accessories, should be fused (track feeds average to 1 large wire, tranf. breaker is handling that) More, as in extra, track drops deliver power better to remote points as wire has less resistance than track. The lone center rail delivers slightly less than two rails on the outside, so will enjoy a bus jumped across a loop more, but running both power legs helps. (also on tubular track, center rail especially, replace any hollow pins with solid ones. The hollow ones have a seam. They are barely able to conduct enough amps alone, the outer rail suffers less because there are two pins worth of metal for amps to cross.

Though listed in watts, the voltage range can have some bearing. More voltage means less amp per volt to get watts

Ampsare not voltamp (va) ....VA is another combined measurement. Knowing any two values of watt, amp, va, voltage, and a few others can give you a conversion to another measurement. The formulas for much of electricity's math are in the tons of free online calculators out there, from AWG needs to automatic ciruit design and "sandbox boards" to see what works without ever touching a wire or diode. When using two power supplies (even bricks) together they should be phased together. ("youtube/lionel/ phasing two or more transformers for use together") If you run command, wiring bricks &/or transformers to power blocks is a suitable way to grow your power(match voltages), but just remember you seldom if ever hear folk complain they bought too big a power supply.

Edited after a posting glitch.

Hot dog, I got it working!

Prior to me posting here on the forum I did not know you could have more than one power supply feeding a layout. Because the Super Chief set is RTR, it came with a wall wart and terminal track that I had not thought to utilize....until now. I added that to to the inner loop and now my trains are running like the real thing! 

To Roger Teb, not mixing AC/DC, noted and thank you.

Thanks again to everyone! 

Sooner or later, you will likely want a transformer, because that gives you variable AND added power. To keep buying wall warts at $ 40 apiece, using up power strips, will likely get old. 

New engines as well as conventional engines can run on an AC transformer, but Lionel and other conventional locomotives cannot usually run on DC power.

You can for $125 buy a postwar ZW- or $ 40- $80 for a lesser PW "Multi-Volt" such as a 90-watt Lionel #100 transformer on e-Bay.

NOTE: You WILL have to run an inline external circuit breaker on each output that runs trains to protect your newer, circuit-board controlled locomotives.  The older transformers' breakers might take 10-15 seconds of a dead short to kick- and your electronics might be fried.  I use 3 amp breakers- but those are pretty sensitive; if I did it again I would buy 5 amp breakers.

Each engine (mine, measured, and as old as 1948 vintage Lionel) draw about 2 amps each pulling a 15-car train - that's about 24 watts each.  (assuming an average of 12 volts at full tilt.  A LC or Legacy engine, still about 2 amps/24 watts).  

A (ZW) or "Multi-Volt" transformer can allow multiple power feeds -

example- my power plant section has a  275-watt ZW w/ 4 outputs:

Handle 1: controls (thru a toggle) a part of the Main (switchable between the main ZW-L and the ZW) that uses probably 4 amps/ 60 watts.

Inner Handle 2: runs a Bump N Go trolley- .5 amps/ 15 watts

Inner Handle 3: runs lighting (thru AC/DC Adjustable Buck Converters) on 1/2 of the layout - a calculated 40 watts

Handle 4: runs switching trains on the power plant/ coat yard section - another 60 watts.  Total- 175 watts or so, still leaving 100 watts available.

Buy more power than you think, today, you'll need. Otherwise you'll have a box full of unused wall packs.  My opinion.

If you do some dilligent shopping on EBay you can sometimes find an MTH Z4000 for short money. That would give you more power than you can use for the present, expansion for the future, and two actual throttle handles, one for each loop. 

Thanks for all the suggestions. They don't tell you all this when you are buying that first RTR set!

Yeah- but a LionChief Plus locomotive costs 50% more than the whole set!!  The Starter Sets, I think are one of the few "bargains" in the hobby!!  The standard Lion Chief locomotive alone is something like 1/2 the price of the whole set at about $125 or the $ 260.  Add in 10 pcs. Fastrack, and a wall wart....

Mike Wyatt posted:

Sooner or later, you will likely want a transformer, because that gives you variable AND added power. To keep buying wall warts at $ 40 apiece, using up power strips, will likely get old. 

New engines as well as conventional engines can run on an AC transformer, but Lionel and other conventional locomotives cannot usually run on DC power.

You can for $125 buy a postwar ZW- or $ 40- $80 for a lesser PW "Multi-Volt" such as a 90-watt Lionel #100 transformer on e-Bay.

NOTE: You WILL have to run an inline external circuit breaker on each output that runs trains to protect your newer, circuit-board controlled locomotives.  The older transformers' breakers might take 10-15 seconds of a dead short to kick- and your electronics might be fried.  I use 3 amp breakers- but those are pretty sensitive; if I did it again I would buy 5 amp breakers.

Each engine (mine, measured, and as old as 1948 vintage Lionel) draw about 2 amps each pulling a 15-car train - that's about 24 watts each.  (assuming an average of 12 volts at full tilt.  A LC or Legacy engine, still about 2 amps/24 watts).  

A (ZW) or "Multi-Volt" transformer can allow multiple power feeds -

example- my power plant section has a  275-watt ZW w/ 4 outputs:

Handle 1: controls (thru a toggle) a part of the Main (switchable between the main ZW-L and the ZW) that uses probably 4 amps/ 60 watts.

Inner Handle 2: runs a Bump N Go trolley- .5 amps/ 15 watts

Inner Handle 3: runs lighting (thru AC/DC Adjustable Buck Converters) on 1/2 of the layout - a calculated 40 watts

Handle 4: runs switching trains on the power plant/ coat yard section - another 60 watts.  Total- 175 watts or so, still leaving 100 watts available.

Buy more power than you think, today, you'll need. Otherwise you'll have a box full of unused wall packs.  My opinion.

I have ran 4 complete LC, LC+ trains on one 72W power pack on a 17x11 around the room layout.  I now have one 72W on each main loop.  No problems at all.   Now lets compare $$ on these.  I got them for 50 each.   So I have 100.00 in plenty of power to run LC LC+ or LC+2.0.   Power packs with ultra fast acting breakers built in.  Will not harm modern electronics.  No handles.  Not to mention Lionel themselves told me to run my LC and LC+ on DC.  But that's another issue.  

Seeing he has a 72w already why not use it?   BTW I shelved 2 CW80s and replaced them with the 72w DC power packs.  No voltage drop anywhere on the layout.  Still I may isolate 1/3 of each loop and power it with 54w units that I already have.   So no transformer to send AC to the rails so the engine can turn it back into DC using the bridge rectifier to run ..  

We just have two different ways to enjoy the same thing!  Running trains!!!!  

Jim 

Thanks Jim!