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To Gunrunnerjohn, Alex M., and other Lionel techs, some questions about tmcc or cruise for a Lionel 6-18754 P.E. 2-8-4 Berkshire Jr.?

O ogaugeguyOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

I have Lionel's 6-18754 conventional Polar Express 2-8-4 Berkshire Jr. #1225 with WhistleSteam Smoke Effect. It has a metal loco body and metal tender equipped with RailSounds RTR sound system with steam chuffing, steam whistle, bell, and user-activated crew dialog scenarios. 

I'd like to add speed control and possibly even tmcc to it but am wondering how that would effect it's whistlesteam smoke effect. Since I'm okay with the sounds it already has I'm not necessarily eager replace those. My questions are - what effect would adding ERR's tmcc and cruise control have on this engine's current sounds and its whistle steam smoke effect capability? Could they be kept with the installation of both tmcc and cruise control? Can cruise control be added without adding tmmc? (Btw. the whistlesteam smoke effect comes from a fan driven smoke unit while  smoke from the engine's smokestack comes from a puffer smoke unit.) So, would running at a constant 18 volt tmcc environment have a detrimental effect the on engines fan driven whistlesteam smoke effect unit? Could the puffer smoke unit be replaced with a fan driven one?

I know some of you might suggest replacing the loco with a scale size Legacy one but unfortunately I need to stick with traditional sized locos.

Perhaps, Gunrunnerjohn, Alex M., Boxcar Bill or someone else has upgraded this loco and can chime in with their experiences. Many thanks to all for your help and advice.

Last edited by ogaugeguy
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G GGGOGR Forum Member

TMCC engines with cruise will have cruise in conventional, but I am not sure why you want to add TMCC and cruise and not operate in the TMCC environment. 

 

If you integrate TMCC you can run at reduced voltage, and you can use a conventional whistle button to insert your offsets to control whistle and steam effect.  So it would be in a composite operating mode.

 

Lionel normally uses resistor values that can handle the 18V versus lower voltage of conventional operation.  You can always insert some diodes to reduce the voltage to the element, while still allowing the fan to be operated with the whistle button to trigger the effect.

 

I am pretty sure you could fit a fan driven unit in the engine if you wanted that source, but I am not sure how it would integrate with the whistle smoke.

 

Take the shell off and post some pictures, and we can probably give some ideas.  G

O ogaugeguyOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
GGG, sorry if I didn't state my concerns more clearly. When you say, "... I am not sure why you want to add TMCC and cruise and not operate in the TMCC environment", I would welcome running in tmcc mode providing the engine's steamwhistle smoke effect would function and also if I could keep the railsounds the engine currently has. unless of course, the tmcc sounds are superior to those currently on this conventional engine, but my major concern is keeping the ability to use the steamwhistle smoke effect." 
Last edited by ogaugeguy
gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

This is one project that I'm wanting to do, decode the serial data and trigger a smoke unit so we can add whistle smoke to upgrades.  I'd also like to add blowdown effects as well.

 

It's certainly doable, I just haven't gotten to it yet.  I envision a small board that will be similar to my Super-Chuffer and offer those options.  It's possible I'd consider folding in the Super-Chuffer functionality with the new capabilities in a single board.

 

 

G GGGOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:
GGG, sorry if I didn't state my concerns more clearly. When you say, "... I am not sure why you want to add TMCC and cruise and not operate in the TMCC environment", I would welcome running in tmcc mode providing the engine's steamwhistle smoke effect would function and also if I could keep the railsounds the engine currently has. unless of course, the tmcc sounds are superior to those currently on this conventional engine, but my major concern is keeping the ability to use the steamwhistle smoke effect." 

You would have to use a bell and whistle button as mentioned to operate the specific conventional RS effects.  Pretty sure the Tender was self contained with a hall effect sensor for chuff.  I do believe the smoke unit has a tube that provides smoke for the whistle, but don't remember for sure.  So changing to a fan driven smoke unit might present problems with adapting a smoke outlet for the whistle effect unit.  Triggering is just the dc offset that energizes the fan.

I wonder how long before Lionel introduces the PE as a RC + with those effects. 

 

Just looked at Lionel's parts list and the element is 18ohms and the smoke unit provides smoke for the whistle.  So the 18V operating voltage would not be good for the smoke unit without changing the resistor to about 22-27ohms.  Since this is a puffer, the heating element would not last long if the engine was idle and no cooling air.  G

Last edited by GGG
O ogaugeguyOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
gunrunnerjohn posted:

All good questions, I've never looked under the hood of this one to see what it would take.  For TMCC control of the sound, you'd need to do something special, as the sound board in that locomotive doesn't support the serial data to trigger sound from the TMCC command board.

 

So, John, during the time since you posted this reply more than three years ago, have you had the opportunity to examine or work on this specific locomotive? If you have, is what I posted about and has been discussed here doable?

Last edited by ogaugeguy
G GGGOGR Forum Member

That engine used a simple DC Offset detector to run the smoke fan motor for the whistle smoke.  Similar to the conventional whistle tender in older starter sets. So you need away to send a DC offset to the board from and R2LC.  Do not think you can do it simply with out creating a new board to do it.  G

Jim BattagliaJim BattagliaOGR Forum Member
gunrunnerjohn posted:

This is one project that I'm wanting to do, decode the serial data and trigger a smoke unit so we can add whistle smoke to upgrades.  I'd also like to add blowdown effects as well.

 

It's certainly doable, I just haven't gotten to it yet.  I envision a small board that will be similar to my Super-Chuffer and offer those options.  It's possible I'd consider folding in the Super-Chuffer functionality with the new capabilities in a single board.

 

 

Mike Reagan and Lou N. did this long ago with their TAS PW-UCUB board, as they used the serial data to trigger a DC offset for postwar whistles and bicycle horns. 

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