I sure would like to see a new train shop here in western Penna.
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@jim sutter posted:I sure would like to see a new train shop here in western Penna.
Jim:
I operated a train shop but had to close it in 2012. With the minimal dealer discount from wholesalers on model railroad products, it was IMPOSSIBLE to compete with on-line dealers.
I really miss brick and mortar train shops. There were several in the Baltimore area when I was younger, and I loved visiting them. Now, with the closing of M. B. Klein, there are none. I really miss going to the shops and seeing, in person, the many wonderful offerings in our great hobby.
My opinion. I can't imagine ANYONE "opening a train shop in 2024" under the current small business environment, especially with all the "discount mail-order" options in the U.S..
I like to make money not throw it away. Unless you have a lot of capital to invest and can establish yourself quickly you'll lose money and fail.
@jim sutter posted:I sure would like to see a new train shop here in western Penna.
I'd like to see any in a lot of locations in PA, MD, VA, etc.
And if I had some ham, I could have ham & cheese, if I had some cheese.........
I'm just glad that Western PA still has at least 9-10 hobby/train shops that we can choose from, and an easy day trip to OH and/or WV add more to that count. When I got back into the hobby, there were a lot more shops in this area, and for fun I used the MTH and Lionel dealer finders to figure out that Pittsburgh had more train dealers within a 75 mile radius of the city than NYC! As I said, I am happy for the ones that survive, and hope they survive long into the future.
Andy
Retail is a very tough business to get into, compete in and be successful. Like @MartyE, I like to make money. Where I live in Chicago, there are lots of "space for rent" signs in windows. Rents in these store fronts makes it near impossible to turn a profit. In this hobby, that would seem to be even more so to be the case. I can't think of any new hobby shops that have opened in Chicago or anywhere for that matter. In order to be successful, you have to have a service department that can fix things that are broken and arrive broken. You also have to have a lot of inventory, and that ties up money.
@jim sutter - you once had your own shop, I bought from you then. Any interest in taking another go at it?
John
Jim, Homer City sounds like a great place...
Would love to see another closer to me in Cleveland replace the Trading Post and, previously, Parma Hobby and Glen's in Akron. Haven't been to Uncle Rays. Stockyard is great but it's about an hour drive.
Brick and mortar retail has just become so darn difficult.....internet makes customers so hard to attract, and now employees are hard to find and retain. Here in NE Ohio we see a lot of places going back to only 5 or 6 day operations (like the old days when virtually no one was open on Sundays). Restaurants are dropping to Tue or Wed through Sunday. A local hair salon franchisee told me he's down to two stylists but his franchisor is demanding he be open 7 days/week. He's thinking of shuttering.
Since Jim started this thread I think he should reopen his shop!!!!
There is an old run-down free-standing single-story store on Main Street about a mile from my house that I pass almost every time I drive somewhere. It's been vacant for years and as I pass by I often think of using it for a train store. But I quickly snap back to reality and remind myself that it would take a lot of work (that I might enjoy) but unlikely to be a money-maker. I'm better off just running my own trains and layouts at home. Unfortunately, train stores have all but disappeared in Connecticut.
MELGAR
I know the store Mel. Like many things, it is for the young.
One of my museum members use to own the train store in Shelton.
@DMASSO posted:I know the store Mel. Like many things, it is for the young.
One of my museum members use to own the train store in Shelton.
Merry Christmas Don.
The store in Shelton was Shelton Railroad Systems. Are the former owners active in your museum? I haven't seen them in many years.
MELGAR
Yes Mel, John and Elaine are members of BMRS.
Merry Christmas to you and your family.
I know how to wind up with a million dollars in the model train business. Start with 2 million dollars and open a store.
I am sorry for the "gallows" humor.
Right next door to the Movie rental shop I'm opening...
Can't decide between that and book, record or film processing stores.
What, me worry?
I'm a veteran of the retail hobby shop business that added trains back in 1988. A fella came into my shop one Saturday wanting to be an "authorized Lionel Service Station". We became friends and 6 months later I was up to chin in trains as well. We had a RC race track outside and flew RC aircraft a few miles away - were active competitors in 'Pattern' and 'I-Mac' (Aerobatics). Having first one and then a second boy born and running the shop almost killed all my hobbies! But I survived and had a lot of fun. NO $$$ however as most of my customers became friends and although we moved a fair amount of products it was at decreasing levels of profit. Eventually had to close shop due to wife's health issues and family responsibilities but the Service Survives to this day as "Uncle Sam's Trains" Lionel SS #224 north of New Orleans in Covington La. In fact, I am there now staying with my friend George visiting my sons and new (1st) granddaughter Marigold.
I thought I recalled Jim asking about this a couple years back. Here's how I responded then and still feel the same way.
In today's market you'd be better off flushing your money down the drain. Don't get me wrong if you are an established store with a great internet presence you're probably doing ok but to start up a train store today would be IMO a poor decision. Maybe buy as business from an established store but not startup. Any business startup is a risk but trains seems like not the startup business I'd want to try.
@Randy Harrison posted:I know how to wind up with a million dollars in the model train business. Start with 2 million dollars and open a store.
I am sorry for the "gallows" humor.
That is anavaition slogan except you for got the last line "quit while you are ahead"
@jim sutter posted:I sure would like to see a new train shop here in western Penna.
Actually, it’s funny you post this question, if I move goes forward as scheduled and we land back up in Blue Ridge Georgia I was thinking about opening a Train store there
I suspect you'd need to ask yourself the question of what you could provide customers they cannot get through the various on-line retail operations, whether Amazon or Charles Ro, etc. Clearly service and repairs would be one thing, but unlike automobiles, folks are not necessarily keen to spend large sums of money on repairing toys. I gather automobile dealers make most of their margin on service and repairs, not sales. It's hard for me to envision how a new store selling only trains would make margins given the competition from on-line sales and the low reimbursement for both warranty and out of warranty service and repairs. We have a very successful general hobby shop focusing on R/C and one focusing on trains that appears to be a labor of love. I hope they both survive their owners' retirements, but it remains to be seen long term whether these are viable income generators. Right now they seem to be doing fine thankfully, but there's probably no need for another store in our area. There are additional stores in large cities 70-90 miles east and west, so actually not bad for a largely rural area of the country.
@jim sutter posted:I sure would like to see a new train shop here in western Penna.
Why [ would you like to see that ] ?
I'd be careful what you wish for. Even If 50% of the new store's customers were new to the hobby [ unlikely, but possible ], the remaining 50% would probably be taken from other stores in the area. Let's say that's 10% from each of five stores; if that 10% were also the other stores' 10% each, that might be the difference between profit and loss for them, and now you are going to start losing stores instead of gaining........
SZ
In the words of General Bullmoose, "Progress is the root of all evil..."
@Alfred E Neuman posted:Can't decide between that and book, record or film processing stores. What, me worry?
Oh, but vinyl records are now again the rage! Shops should be profitable.... especially in college towns.
April 1st is a long time off. I'm sure there are a bunch of owners that would love to sell you one. Trains can't compete with sports, electronics and the short attention span of youth today. Your audience when not purchasing trains are buying Depends and Geritol.
@Landsteiner posted:I suspect you'd need to ask yourself the question of what you could provide customers they cannot get through the various on-line retail operations, whether Amazon or Charles Ro, etc. Clearly service and repairs would be one thing, but unlike automobiles, folks are not necessarily keen to spend large sums of money on repairing toys. I gather automobile dealers make most of their margin on service and repairs, not sales. It's hard for me to envision how a new store selling only trains would make margins given the competition from on-line sales and the low reimbursement for both warranty and out of warranty service and repairs. We have a very successful general hobby shop focusing on R/C and one focusing on trains that appears to be a labor of love. I hope they both survive their owners' retirements, but it remains to be seen long term whether these are viable income generators. Right now they seem to be doing fine thankfully, but there's probably no need for another store in our area. There are additional stores in large cities 70-90 miles east and west, so actually not bad for a largely rural area of the country.
This would be more of an occupying my time as long as it breaks even……
The 2 Train shops that opened in Denver in the last 5 years quickly closed and went out of business. I have been lucky, specializing in repairs only have been in business for 13 years now.
We lost Seymour's hobby shop years ago. There are a few downtown buildings that are empty that would be good places for one. But the rent is over $1000.00 a month for a building that needs a lot of work. Nearest hobby shop is MR. Muffins in Atlanta IN. So no to your question. Video and electronic games seem to be the rule around here.
I can think of two train shops that were briefly open on the west and north sides of Columbus, Ohio .,. Due to "built to order", when l went in, the shelves were mostly bare. And that was before COVID. So l only returned to each once or twice. I fantasize making trains, all the small shortline stuff available in HO in the 1950's, but that would take really big bucks, and even Menards is only doing it as a sideline.
In Southeastern PA we've got too many great options and I'm amazed that they're all able to remain going, but they have been for years. I'm happy to remain a consumer, I don't think my opening a shop would meet a community need.
One of my retirement goals is to open a cafe/bakery and sell a limited but delectable selection of my cookies (recipes that I've developed over the years) and coffees, teas, etc., and have an operating train exhibit that would bring smiles (and customers). If I did branch into the "train shop" aspect, what advice, other than having big bucks (which I don't and never will have) can you offer? The only thing I can think of is having one or more partners who could manage the train shop part.
Frankly, I don't see the train shop happening for the simple reason that, in the geographical areas I am thinking folks don't have the disposable income; this is an expensive hobby, period. I still cannot get my head around the fact that a caboose costs $70 to $120.
Anything is possible, but the fact is that established shops have tried to sell their largely successful businesses and ultimately had to close after no buyer emerged.
Hobbyists say they want a hobby shop near them. But most shop for price and greater selection. Shops that do online sales soon find that the retail stores themselves are a drag on resources, especially in nice locations where investment property owners charge steep rates for rent.
I miss those hobby shops that have gone by the wayside, but I’d never advise a friend to open a new one until something marks a change in retail.
In my line of work, I saw many many instances of people retiring, and then opening up their "lifetime dream business." It always always ended in financial disaster. Most common were a Bed and Breakfast, an Antique Shop, a high- end restaurant, a bakery, a gun shop, and once (I kid you not) an independent film production company (but that was a mega-millionaire's wife).
Virtually every one of these folks had no idea whatsoever as to the grueling hours, large capital requirements and operating costs, and management time it would take to open up and maintain these little fantasies.
I think that every one of these I dealt with folded within a year, after losing $100,000 to $250,000. All of the capital improvements they paid for in the shop were totally lost, and "Oh yea, I forgot about that 5 year commercial lease I signed? (What, you mean I can't just cancel it?) " In some cases, divorce followed.
To me, the Bed and Breakfast fantasy was the most common. Why people think that cleaning dirty toilets and washing dirty linen for strangers in their golden years will be "fun" was utterly beyond my comprehension. Instead of the guests being fun, witty and interesting people from all walks of life (as in the TV shows), they were demanding, chronic-complaining, slugs, who expected to be waited on hand and foot.
I am sorry to say that I believe that "opening up a little train shop" at any age would fall within this category.
Mannyrock
Judging from my local hobby shop, 'Hobby House' here in Hendersonville, NC, a trains only shop will not make it. The Hobby House does O and HO trains and supplies, RC aircraft, and model kits, and model kits have been the big seller. HH has a large inventory of Lionel and MTH, over 400 MTH items in stock, and does a steady business, but not an avalanche of train biz. The plus to running HH, is that Ted and Pam own the store outright, and a new biz, having to rent a place, and pay out a couple thousand a month for rent, not including utilities, and paying yourself a wage, really puts the pressure on to sell stuff. I am a regular customer when it comes to brand new, I'm into O, HO, and model kits, and Ted guided me into not getting into RC stuff by putting me on to online sites where you can play with simulators for RC gear and planes, and after a month, decided it was not for me, sticking with trains and models. Ted is interested in selling HH, somewhere in the 4-500K range, inventory and store, but again, you have to factor in how many things you have to sell in month that will actually make just the payment on the mortgage. That's a lot of box cars.
For decades, Chicagoland Hobby was one of the best train stores in the Chicago metropolitan area. Some considered it the best. When the owner decided it was time to retire, there were no takers for the business. The store closed this past September. The story of Chicagoland Hobby is typical of what's happening in most areas of the country. Train stores are closing, not opening. Sadly, it's a business model that's no longer viable.
After reading all of your replies, sounds like a new train shop should not open.
I question how the hobby will fare if we are reduced just to online sellers. Buying online, without ever having seen a model railroad in person, without having handled a model locomotive, track, transformer, structure, or without having read a printed magazine on the subject, would make me reluctant to make the expenditure. That's why I wonder about the sustainability of O gauge model railroading - and perhaps the other gauges too. After all, the biggest manufacturer of smart phones still sells through retail outlets. But its sales are orders of magnitude greater than the entire model train industry.
MELGAR
The way businesses are run these days, Opening up a brick and mortar train store should be considered as a business card and NOT your "meat and potatoes" income. As a retail store you should
A] already have an on line presence with Point of Sale, accepting credit cards, and accepting PayPal
B] a rotating goto stock for attending popular train shows and sales.
C] OWN THE BUILDING the store/warehouse is located in.
The days of setting up a storefront and waiting for customers was so last century and a recipie for disaster. I dont think Forum sponsor Mr. Muffins has his retail shop open 5-6 days a week now.
Many times I have considered opening a train store after I retire but the only way I would do it is if I could meet PRRHorseshoeCurve’s stipulations above. Like if I had a room above my garage I could put the store in and I would only work it part time. It would not be my main source of income. I would try but I don’t have that room above my garage and even if I did there is a train store 25 minutes from me. I don’t think this area could support 2 train stores. Alas there is no train store in my future.
There was a full service hobby shop in Jackson NJ for 50 years. Owner wanted to retire and sell the business, no takers. No other hobby shop in the area.
