Question for Hot Water

Uh-oh...now you've done it.

Be gentle, Jack.  

I thought the question was gentle. 

OK, I'm confused by your question. What would be the difference between the "fastest" and "next"? It would still come down to the 3985. Of course I am ONLY referring to the UP steam program.

I am saying if the 3985 was brought to running condition which locomotive would be the next one to get going the 844 or 4014. 

Matthew

Ah, got it. Again, speaking strictly about UP, that would then be FEF-3 #844, next. A lot more time will be need to COMPLETELY rebuild/restore 4014.

Once the New Director takes over, gets his feet on the ground, and REALLY sees the disaster that has taken place over the last 4 years, then plans can be put into place. Obviously, first and foremost will be the elimination of the current manager and his "staff".

From what little I understand and what has been posted in several other threads is that the 844 is supposed to be gong first, then the 4014, and the 3985 is llkely a no go for a very long time.

From what little I understand and what has been posted in several other threads is that the 844 is supposed to be gong first, then the 4014, and the 3985 is llkely a no go for a very long time.

That is what the steam manager has stated.  That may have been based on his preference and not on the time or expense required to get any of the three back in operation.  However, as of today the manager has a new Director to report too.  The priorities just might change.

You have apparently been listening to the dear leader, or "current manager". A New Director has just been moved to Cheyenne (announced by UP today, 1/8/2015) who will "clean up the mess" created by said current manager.

The poster above asked which locomotive COULD be brought up to operation the fastest; and that would be Challenger 3985 because the change in boiler water treatment chemicals , done by the current manager, was never implemented with 3985. The 3985 was simply "removed from service" by the current manager, and stuffed into the far stall of the roundhouse, during the winter of 2010/2011. Luckily, 3985 never operated again after October 2010, and thus has never been "abused".

Concerning 844, both the interior of her boiler as well as the interior of her tender require EXTENSIVE work, plus the FRA mandated 15 year boiler inspection and Form 4 recalculation. Thus 844 isn't going anywhere soon, unless UP hires qualified outside contractors, and throw LOTS of workers AND dollars at her!

Thanks for the update. I qualified my post with "From what little I understand: since I did not know the details. All I remember about the 3985 as that it was apart and a lot of pieces according to another poster who supposedly saw this months ago.

It is such a shame that the information is not honest and up front until Hot Water or Rich posts.

Sorry to say that there are/were a LOT of "KoolAid Drinkers" out there, who simply could not, or would not, see what has been actually going on under the current manager over the last 4 years.

I thought the 3985 was in an overhaul when the current manager took over?

Matthew

Absolutely not! As soon as Steve Lee retired from the Superintendent of Heritage Fleet Operations, on December 31, 2010, the current manager stuck 3985 in the last stall of the roundhouse, and put out all sorts of lies about what was "wrong with 3985".

So then why did they Take her apart?

Matthew

What do you consider "taking her apart"?  The appliances where removed, and the superheater units removed and eventually sent to scrap. Other than that, nothing has been effectively done to 3985 since the winter of 2010/2011.  The current manager kept telling anyone who would listen that 3985 had "boiler/firebox problems", because he didn't WANT her to operate.

Who is the new director and where does he come from?  (A thinly veiled attempt to find out what HW thinks of him.)

The New Director is/was one of the Directors at the North Little Rock Locomotive Shops (Jenks Shop), and his name is J. Scott George.

See the post further down here on the Real Trains Forum about the UP announcement. 

Any more details on what "water treatment" was used? I'm curious.

CN_Hogger

I can't remember the exact caustic chemical make-up, but the current manager change suppliers, i.e. from the long standing company that worked very closely with UP and developed a treatment program specifically for the two steam locomotives, to some swimming pool supply outfit. Also, combined with not properly testing the water from the hydrants used each day, and insufficient boiler blowndowns and boiler washes, the inside of 844's boiler wound up look like a concrete mixer.

Stupid question, is it the total dissolved solids in the water ,whatever source, that creates the scale build up? ie; Hard water.  and by adding chems you hope to keep the sediment in the tender, or in suspension so it passes through the system?

Isn't there some issue with the tender, too?  What is the nature/cause of that?

The tender on 844 has some pretty serious internal damage to the structural baffles, as a result of the highly caressive chemicals that were "overused" trying to "treat the boiler". Thus, 844's tender needs attention also. 

Thanks, HW. 

In case anyone thinks water treatment is some modern-day thing, or is just sort of an afterthought, or is new in any way,  in steam days, railroads supplied the tender of every locomotive with water treatment chemicals.  Every time the engine took water, chemicals were added to the tender as prescribed by Company instructions, depending on how much water was taken.  In California, UPRR used Nalco pellets (which were simply dropped into the tank in the required number), while Santa Fe used a brownish powder that had to be measured and mixed with water in a bucket, using the squirt hose, and added to the tank.  These were supplied by companies that were in the business of boiler water treatment.

When the engine went to the roundhouse, a sample of water from the tender was tested and the water was adjusted chemically if needed, to keep it within the Company standard.  Water samples from all water tanks supplied by Company wells were tested often, and water treatment was additionally done there by the pumper.