Question for Southern Pacific Modelers

I think the present aux tender for the 4449 was built for here at DDX, at or post AFT.

P did have some aux tenders, but for specs., I don't know.

The aux tender was not used during steam days on the SP.

If not having "Southern Pacific Lines" bothers you, then so should the incorrect body styles supplied on most Daylight models.  I have no idea what is so difficult about the corrugations on the Daylight cars.

1) MTH made "fluted side" 18"/19" passenger cars, but I can not recall any in "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering. These are pretty nice cars, but NOT scale length.

2) Don't know anything about Lionel SP Daylight cars, since the are NOT scale!

3) Golden Gate Depot full scale SP Daylight passenger cars are the correct "fluted side", and are correctly lettered "Southern Pacific", since the SP dropped the use of the "Lines" lettering in 1946. The vast majority of SCALE modelers in 3RS and/or 2-Rail wanted to use the Daylight train sets being pulled by steam or diesel power. Thus the "Lines" lettering would NOT have appropriate for both.

4) The current auxiliary water tender used behind 4449, was acquired and completely rebuilt/reconfigured for the 1984 New Orleans Worlds Fair Daylight. The aux tender originally came from cab forward #4219, thus the aux tender carries reporting marks DLMX4219. The SP never used aux water tenders behind GS class locomotives in the steam days.

5) Can't remember if the aux tender ladder use to be all black, that was way too long ago!

HW, I thought GGD made a 1937 Daylight set? Maybe not.  I model pre '46 SP having little interest in diesels.

Bob I would prefer accurate models if I could find them. No problem in HO where I do most of my scale modeling but not so easy to find in 3 rail O.

Pete

Not to my knowledge. GGD did do a Santa Fe 1937 passenger train set, I believe.

My GGD SP Daylight set is the "SOUTHERN PACIFIC" lettering, on fluted cars. Very nice train and looks especially nice being pulled by the latest Sunset/3rd Rail black GS-4, #4445. I took off the skirts, had the tender stripped and re-painted/re-decaled to the large "SOUTHERN PACIFIC" lettering, and the pilot painted silver, so she now looks like 1955.

I believe this to be the most accurate Daylight cross-section made in O Scale, and I have heard that even this has flaws.  Note the inverse fluting - opposite that of most Pullman car bodies.  And note that the flutes alternate - one big, one small.  Only some ATSF cars were like this; all other Pullman cars were dramatically different.

I want to see some pix of your version Hot Water. I know, I know..... be patient! 

In following with Bob2's reply the following models are the most accurately done P-S lightweight ribbed, fluted cars in O scale to-date and in the brass imports end of the hobby. Bob's extrusions are exceptional and look good to me also.

The following models fluted sides measure almost exactly to the prototype from my drawings and photos found in the wonderful 5 volume series published by the Southern Pacific Historical & Techincal Society. 

http://www.sphtsstore.org/serv...assenger-Cars/Detail

Without looking at the books off the top of my head Bob is right as P-S Pullman Standard had its own fluted panels and erecting techniques different than the patented "shot-welded" Budd cars. Lionel and other toys seem to generalize the overall appearance of the prototype that is frustrating to me since I find the hobby somewhat as an educational resource to the history of these fine machines now in our history. 

If we could get MTH to make O scale models like their HO Daylight cars we would have the finest passenger car models made in O scale.  And I say that with all due respect to the Atlas CZ cars and the fine brass cars pictured above.

I love passenger cars.. MTH's plastic HO cars are nice along with Walthers.. Truly "nicest" maybe. They could be. The Atlas CZ cars are very nice but full of issues. Literally blowing up an HO Broadway Limited car to 1:48 is not the way to do it. I struggled at a career level to get Atlas to modify that dome end and they did sort of. Its better but far from perfect and in this day in age of AutoCad and 3D scanning perfect is possible. (INCASE Of no photos- Please forgive my Photobucket account it may drop out.. it comes back after 30 days or something)

Lionel Smithsonian (Fine Art Models) NYC cars

PSC Harriman Common Standard Dining Car detailed and modified to Challenger 1946-1950 Union Pacific specs.

Ugly pre-production sample

BLI sample

Atlas/Midland Reproductions Dome Study

 Coach Yard HO ATSF Chief set

Eric, you have some beautiful cars here. Who made the Daylight car?

Bob, who makes that extrusion?

Pete

Probably from Key Imports, Pete.

Over $500 PER CAR!

Jack Speer and Tom Fogle made the extrusion.  You really need an end mill or window punches to do extrusions.  Cutting and filing will make you go fruitbasket.

Jack was going to offer complete kits.  The cost of cutting windows and supplying ends drove the project into the "way too expensive" category.  I am lucky enough to have a set, cut here with simple ends.

I love the Golden Era passenger trains... 

Erik - Glad to see you posting pictures again!

Totally agree! It is just a shame that all of those super fine passenger consists are ALL for 2-Rail only. Although my layout has 072 as the smallest 3-Rail curve in one or two places, the Golden Gate Depot 12 car SP Daylight passenger set negotiates the OUTSIDE main line just fine. However there is NO WAY that I would be able to use those full width end-of-car diaphragms.

I did just get the diaphragms for the "between the articulated cars" from Scott Mann, last week, and those sure make the articulated diner and chair cars look much better. I have not permanently affixed the new diaphragms, since I keep my scale length passenger train sets in special 30" long Rubber Maid tubs for storage and transport to shows. Thus, if I permanently affix the diaphragms, I would be unable to take any of the articulated cars apart.

Thanks guys glad you like the pictures. 

I am still envious of this SPECTACULAR HO model produced by OMI.

If anyone is in the Fresno area John Ford has the remainder of the Speer/Fogle extrusions, Fluted and smoothside in 10 ft lengths.  He won't ship them nor cut them so you need to be able to pick up the 10 footers.   He is considering having the aluminum recycled so don't wait too long if you are serious. Most of the fluted extrusions have minor electrolysis pitting so a 10 foot length will probably yield you 3 or may be 4 22" clean lengths.

Recycling them would be a genuine tragedy.  Now I know why Tom threw in the extras on my last order.

But making models of them would be a labor of love. Takes me almost an hour just to cut windows.

My Lionel Daylight cars have begun to show up. Not perfect but closer than many other 3 rail alternatives. These are Lettered SP lines which is what I was looking for. The area above the windows with the lettering is unfluted rather than a placard placed over the flutes. Also the diaphrams are full width and flex.

I'll try and get some better pics.

Eric, I recall you tried a few ways to paint those diaphrams. What did end up doing to on your cars?

Pete

Norton,

Are those Lionel Daylight cars full length, 21" scale? They look pretty fair, from the one photo you posted. I model the mid 1950s time frame, so the "Lines" lettering is out for me (SP stopped using the 'Lines' lettering starting in 1946).

I don't think Lionel makes 21" cars except in rare instances (Smithsonian 20th Century Cars?). No these are 18" but if you want the later style without the "Lines" they were produced in 2010 referred to as the Shasta Daylight. 6-35445 and 35446. The matching diner car was dropped. If anyone knows of source for correct decals for these cars I would be interested like a hidden stash of Microscale at some hobby shop.

Pete

The BIG problem with the Lionel cars is the windows are applied from the outside.  It ruins an otherwise pretty good looking car.

Rusty

Since this is the 3RS Forum, scale fidelity is pretty important to us. Thus, those Lionel 18" cars simply do not "match up" to the previously offered K-Line 21" Daylight cars , nor the "top of the line" Golden Gate Depot Daylight train set, which includes the articulated diner and chair cars.

By the way, Lionel did offer some 21" passenger cars, right after taking over K-Line. 

K-Line and Weaver did offer 21" Cars lettered for SP Lines. Like the Lionel cars I doubt any of them matched any actual Pullman Standard Daylight cars.  K-Line made 10 cars but two were full length dome cars. Weaver made a nice 5 car smooth side set but without interiors. Neither have full width diaphrams

If GGD ever offers a '37 set or '39 set I will be all over them. In the meantime these will have to do.