Question from a (VERY) Newbie

A hearty welcome to you, John.   You and your 6-year-old should have a ball with Lionel.  Sorry, I can't answer your question though - I haven't graduated to Lionchief.  I'll leave it to someone knowledgeable.

Well thank you very much! I can spend hours reading these posts lol!

Welcome to the forum John.  I'm sure you will get plenty of answers here.   I found al lot of interesting and smart train people here.

I hope you get your answers and A merry Christmas to you and yours.

Welcome to the forum!

Your LionChief set must be run on a separate loop of track, and cannot be run with a conventional transformer powered loco on the same track. LionChief locos need constant voltage on the track to operate, and the speed is electronically regulated with the remote. Conventional locos regulate the speed by varying the voltage to the track.

You would need 3 loops of track for your 3 train sets, with the 2 RTR sets being able to interchange tracks with no problem. The 3rd loop would be for the LionChief set.

If you change out the power pack that the LionChief set comes with for a conventional transformer, you could possibly interchange the LionChief set onto another track, but it would require pretty adept controlling of your transformers and trains to do so. Not easy, but could be done. Each loop would have to be electrically isolated from the others, and powered by separate transformers, or one big one, like a ZW.

You can operate more than 1 LionChief set on the same loop of track, as they are powered by the same constant voltage source, and are controlled by independent remotes.

Larry

Welcome aboard. Don't sell yourself short. Between the reference material out there and the expertise on this Forum you'll figure out the more complicated stuff. As for a layout, there's the "first layout" that you make all your mistakes on, but get trains running, then there's the big "planned out ultimate layout" where everything is designed right and you screw it up anyway and start over. OK, I'm exaggerating a bit, but you learn by making and fixing screw-ups in a layout. Building a layout is a great father-son project. I've built three small layouts for others, plus a micro-layout experiment for a contest last year and I always try something new when I build or design. One of these years I'll get clearance to build one in the house, but for now, I work on the club layout.

Again, welcome to the hobby and the Forum.

Welcome John and Merry Christmas to you and your family…..

Thanks Stephen!

Wow! Thank you all very much! That is why I chose this forum over some others, really nice people! Larry, thank you sincerely. I had not thought about three tracks with the Lionchief running outside. So for the 2 RTR's to run on the same (2 connected loops) I have to use both transformers? 1 for each loco? I guess I'm confused about: 1. how to make both trains run at the same time and then flip a switch and they change from inner to outer loop? I think I sound crazy? Maybe I have watched to many huge layout videos!

Matt thanks for the pep talk! I am pretty handy with mechanical things (mostly really big toys!) so I am used to trial and error! In my newbieness I have already shot my 8632 Penn shooting off the end of my dining room table because the smoke instructions read " run the locomotive at high voltage to heat the smoke element" Well I high voltaged it careening into my wood floor! (trip to the hobby shop) and then I figured out that my smoke unit was burned out anyway! (ordered from Lionel at like $16 for the part and like$1000.00 to ship it!) Im exaggerating but not much!

So I will tinker with it all when Santa comes! (hopefully) I am excited to try the Lionel Chief system and then I can screw around with my RTR's and try to get that inner/outer loop thing out of my head! (I can see it! I really CAN!)

Once again thank you all and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

3 Rail Larry Stay Warm up there in the Great White North! Its 80 here! YUK!

Dear John:  I think your question has been answered above.  Three loops right now.  It'll keep things interesting.  If I were you, at this stage, save up for a Lion Chief Plus.  You can use all your current cars (consist) to trail your choice of Lion Chief Plus locomotive.  I would stay with that system for awhile.  Your 6 year old will take to it pretty easily, and you can get lots of enjoyment out of this system too.  Hope to hear more from you.  And, last but not least, welcome to the Forum.  It just proves the hobby isn't dying, as some doom-sayers would like us to believe.  Bob Severin  

Thanks Bob! My dad really enjoys them and so does my son so we're not going anywhere! We attended a local train show in Palm Beach Gardens where we live and we were hooked even more! I'll get to work and post some pics and most likely a hundred more questions

Merry Christmas to you and yours!

The 2 loops for the 2 RTR sets would each be powered by a separate transformer. This will give you independent control of each train. The 2 loops could be connected together with turnouts (switches) so you can interchange the trains from one loop to the next. There is no "switch" that does this automatically; you have to control both locomotives simultaneously, operate the switches, and be ready to stop the trains if both trains get onto one loop, as invariably one train will be faster than the other on the same loop.

The scenario you envision is doable, but would be much easier with all LionChief/Plus locos.

Larry

Looks as though someone already answered your question. The Lion Chief remotes control only the locomotive they come with. So long as they have constant voltage, they will run as long as you control them with the remote.

Since, in conventional mode, the track is not always in a constant state of consistent

power, then the Lion Chief remotely operated locomotive will not operate on the same track as the other two locomotives.

I would suggest, as others have, to have three separate tracks to run all three trains at once.

Pete

Looks like the answer is above,

But in any case, Welcome to the madness.

It will give you tons of fun hours with your family.

John - When you get a LionCheif or LionCheif Plus loco, those engines are looking for you transformer to be set at full throttle all the time.  The remotes will tell the loco what to do.

Your other RTR set locos know what to do based on the throttle setting of your transformer. 

So if you wanted to run a LionCheif and non-lioncheif on the same track it would be possible but not fun, as the non-lionchief would be racing down track and the Lioncheif would be doing whatever you told it to do with the remote (which if you wanted to avoid collision, would be also racing down the track).

For that reason, you probably want to keep them on separate tracks.

You could could run both RTR locos on the same track, but they may not match speeds well and you may crash.  That is often why people wire blocks into their layouts.  You can turn power on and off to areas to avoid collision.   What is easier than a block?  More lioncheif engines   This is why command control is so popular, it makes wiring eaiser.  You could have 2 Lioncheif or Lionchief plus locos on the same track at full power and neither will move unless you tell it to with the remote (as long as they are 2 different locos).

I would agree, on spending the few extra dollars for a lioncheif plus, they are amazing.  Put up two circles and experiment, I learn best by doing.  Keep things simple and you will be surprised how fast you learn and grow.  WELCOME!   

Welcome aboard John, and Merry Christmas.  What Bob mentioned above covers it all.  The LionChief locomotives has to run on a 18 volt track and can not be run in conventional mode like your original engine.  This is why Lionel developed the LionChief + locomotive, so they can be run on either a 18 volt circuit or with a flip of a switch, run in conventional mode.  You can run each of the trains separately or on different tracks but LionChief set engines require the full 18 volts all the time to operate its features.

Steve, Lady and Tex

Welcome to the forum and hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas.

Art

Thank you guys so much! I've already been looking for a lion chief + online! As far as the RTR's and inner outer loop setup goes, if I wire one transformer to one loop and another transformer to the other loop, what would I need to accomplish that? Obviously two turnouts with switches and is it possible to have the trains cross paths when switching from inner to outer and vice versa? I think I would have to throw one turnout, have that train move onto the other loop then move the other train to the opposite loop? Is there a way ( block?) that would stop one train while the other passes? Sorry for all the silly questions!  John.

welcome to the site, and enjoy the sickness.

A lot can be done within the confines of each system. They allow some mixing, you can always turn one system off, another on.

Conventional operation will just use blocks of track wired individually to help control them. .

 If you ever use two transformers learn to phase them right. Its more of a safety issue on older stuff, But touching blk. to blk. or U to U, etc. isn't what makes it "right".

Done wrong two loops outside rails touching together, is bad news.  

"Command" needs a constant 18v+ to work well. The power amount given to the motor is remote controlled. Command may send a light based signal, radio wave, or radio/serial piggybacked on the tracks power.

 At 12-18v volts your flying in Post War, less for the new stuff in conventional mode.

 The less than 18v for slower conventional running stops a direct mix in command, but a command loco can usually run in conventional mode on an old layout.

 Some command systems allow control of one conventional train, using the remote dial as the throttle, the original throttle being set to 18v+, and left alone. It changes power to the track within the TUI ("brain unit") 

 If you have a conventional loco that could run steady at 18v without jumping the track you could control the Lionchief  only to keep it from colliding. Diodes could be used to slow a conventional engine down to within reason at 18v. 

Welcome to the OGR Forum, John.

.....

Dennis

Hi John,

Another newbie here. I see that you live near Palm Beach Gardens.  I live a little south of you in Coral Springs.  My 4 year old son has loved trains ever since he saw a wooden play set when he was 2.  Since then he has loved everything train related. I just bought a LionChief 10th Anniversary Polar Express set for my son --- and it seems for myself too, since I enjoy playing with it just as much as him!  Like you, I very quickly have become addicted. For now, the LionChief is perfect for him because of the remote control. But I can certainly envision us graduating to other sets.  The LionChief Plus sets are intriguing.

What other train-related things do you like to do in South Florida?  Ever since my son expressed his fondness for everything train related I have scoured the area for things to do with him. We've rode the Tri-Rail commuter train back and forth to West Palm Beach... just for the ride. I have taken him for monthly rides on the live steamers at the Tradewinds & Atlantic Railroad at Tradewinds Park in Margate.  http://www.livesteamers.org/  We went to the Gold Coast Railroad Museum down near Zoo Miami to see the vintage trains and ride their diesel train.  http://www.gcrm.org/  

Our next outing -- maybe today -- may be to the Aventura Mall in North Miami to see their holiday model train display and ride their mall train.  Last year it was decorated for the holidays.  I hope it still is.

http://www.aventuramall.com/ha...l-train-station.html

http://miamionthecheap.com/ave...tion-holiday-season/

Anyway, welcome to the hobby and this forum from a fellow addicted newbie.  I hope you and your son enjoy your new hobby just as my son and I are.

Happy holidays!

Joe

Since you already have your answer, let me welcome you to the Forum and wish you and your family a Very Merry Christmas.

Welcome to the OGR Forum, questions will always answered, there are great folks here that eager to help.

Brent

John,

Welcome to the forum.  While I was involved with HO trains for over 40 years before switching to O gauge, I can say there are a lot of differences that I too was a newbie 3 years ago.  Suffice it to say, as you have seen this forum loves newbies.  The folks on this forum make one feel so welcome, and are so willing to help.  Remember, no question is dumb or silly.  All of us were newbies at one time, and the good thing is, the good folks here always keep that in mind.

have a blessed Christmas!

WOW! thank you all so much for the warm welcomes! Dave, Adriatic,Dennis,Brent and Mark I hope you and your families had a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Santa did bring that LionChief Silver Bells set Christmas morning, needless to say I wasnt really paying attention to much after I opened that one! Played with it all day and then my wife made me let my son use it .

thanks again everyone!

Joe, what a small world! I live in Palm Beach Gardens but I work in Coral Springs (Fire Department) for 20 years now!Thanks for all the great links and things train related to do!

Sorry it took so long to return replies, I still have grown up things to do (even if I would rather play trains!) I already told my wife the trains will NOT be put away this season!

Happy New Year to all!

John,.

John,

You're welcome.  The kids' favorite is the live steamers at Tradewinds park.  The rides are only $1.50 and last 5 minutes around a lake.  I love that they have working steam locomotives.  But they also have diesels.

Welcome aboard John....as you have already found, there is plenty of help here!

Alan

Welcome to the forum! This is a great resource with an amazing group of people, so feel free to ask as many questions as possible.

Since you are just starting out (and this is a good thing), I would encourage you to try a few things and visit a few layouts before committing to a particular brand or scale . This way you'll know better what you want from this hobby in the long term (you don't wanna marry in your 20's if you know what I mean).

My first set was a Lionel r-t-r, I loved it and I still do. But, as much as I did, I wasn't satisfied with it. It took me some time to research and asking questions but I decided (before investing a lot of money) that 2-rail O scale would be more satisfying in the long term. Are you familiar with 2 rail O scale? Fixed pilots and scale couplers? I don't have an agenda, trust me. I just think that an informed decision can save you thousands of dollars if in the future you decide that O gauge 3 rail trains are not your thing.

This is a good place to start if you wanna check it out:

http://www.oscalekings.org/

MTH, Atlas and 3rd rail offer R-T-R 2 rail O scale models that vary in fidelity but are good value.

You may find several videos of o scale 2 rail on youtube and on the 2 rail forum page.

Have fun and welcome to the forum!

Medfire4,

   John the men have pretty well addressed all your questions nothing much to add to their answers, welcome to the forum and if we can help you further in any way just ask.  We have the best bunch of guys and gals in the world here on the OGR, and the knowledge is extensive.

welcome aboard

PCRR/Dave