Question on a Williams Diesel Locomotive

Thanks Gordon. That was my next question. The loco with the regular horn, can that be turned off because it does make an interesting sound that is quite annoying. Also both engines are connected so wouldn't they be running at the same voltage? 

The engine that you say has Station Sounds has a QSI circuit board inside and also has a bell feature with it. Upon start-up you hear an announcement like "train leaving on track 10." At a slow or low voltage the bell will ring and if left on will the bell will disappear at higher speed or voltage and come back at a lower speed or voltage. The horn will not sound off at a lower voltage(around 10 volts or higher), if the horn won't sound off try adding one or two more freight or passenger cars to make the engine get more voltage from the transformer. I have 3 Williams engines that have Station Sounds in them, all diesels engines from the Crown Edition era by Williams.

Lee Fritz

To see if both engines run at the same speed; run them both around your layout without being connected to each other, try one engine in the front first and then the other engine in the front. If one pushes or gets away from the other after a few feet then they are not matched that well and will give you trouble.

Don't cut any wires until you know if you must cut one or not!! 

You may have to disconnect the wire to the horn at the circuit board inside the engine that you don't want to hear the horn. It's a miniature two wire connector plug that should just pull straight out of the circuit board and can be re-installed later with no harm done at all.

FYI, I own about 12 Williams engines before Bachmann and have done some minor work on the engines. I have upgraded two engines to True Blast-2 and one motor upgrade kit to an unpowered F-7 diesel engine.

Lee Fritz

Keep in mind that you'll never get a 100% perfect speed match without some sort of command control system.

Even if one pushes or runs away a little does not mean it's a lost cause IMHO. Slight differences will even out when the two are coupled together. That's been my experience at least.

It's only when one of them rockets off to space, or plows the other off the track, that you will likely run into problems.

Wiring two engines to the same reversing unit.

It is possible to wire dual connected powered engines so that all 4 motors are wired together in series/parallel configuration. A wired connection between the two engines would be required. Only one set of circuit boards would be used although both sound boards and speakers could remain functional.

Each engine could first be wired as series powered motors.  Then additional wires could be added to connect between the first and second engine so that the motors would always be synchronized when cycling forward-neutral-reverse. The power pickups on each engine can remain so that the sound boards are always powered from the track.

Note: The reversing unit on the second engine would not be used when operating the engines in tandem. A toggle switch could be added to the second engine to disconnect the second reversing board when operating dual engines.

The Station Sounds or True Sounds that I have were made by QSI, at least that is what is on the label inside the F-7 B unit, all three sound units have QSI on them.

I have some stuff from the Crown Edition era, and the Williams Reproduction era run. Most of my Williams stuff is form the Crown Edition era or more modern Williams before Bachmann.

I will be honest here and say that I have seen some variations in the Crown Edition passenger cars by Williams, even the same set, maybe a second run was done because the changes are more then just some minor things. The knuckle couplers on some Crown Edition were fixed or non opening and some were opening couplers.

I have never seen one made by OTT corporation inside a Williams engines, however I don't have any first production Williams, the time when they were still using Lionel motors. There is always the chance that Williams used OTT for a short time before going to QSI.

Lee Fritz

Since both units have QSI systems they should run well together, as phillyreading posted. Try it. Run them alone ("light") to make certain neither runs away or lags behind the other. If both run smoothly, add cars and watch their performance.

Different motors and gears could produce different speeds at the same track voltage. Watch for that. Open-frame AC/DC ("universal") motors that preceded can motors can be pushed or pulled (within limits) with no damage. But can motors run at their own speeds. Pushing or pulling them will be detrimental.

QSI and Ott coexisted for some time in the l980's and 1990's. Both had tables at the York Meet. Williams may have used Ott for a while. It's more likely that someone installed it. Williams locomotives were not considered collectors' items. They were customized in all sorts of ways.

I could be wrong but I vaguely recall that the first Williams sound system was QSI Station Sounds installed in a 60' Madison (baggage?) car. That goes back some 30 years.

With regard to OTT, I was repeating what Charlie Phillips told me.  He may have been referring to an alternate recorded horn sound.  Is it certain that OTT did not use a QSI sound chip?

With regard to engine sounds, it was indeed called "True Sounds."  I have numerous instruction sheets and catalog listings and Crown boxes that confirm that.  I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but it will help people search for information about it.

See this discussion on the forum:  https://ogrforum.com/t...e-sounds-information

Even though some Madison diners were wired for "station sounds," there seems to be some dispute about whether Williams actually used the board (according to 3Rail in the Bachmann forum).  On the other hand, there is one such set listed on the auction site at this time.

I do recall seeing such passenger car sets in the Yellow Hall at the TCA meet quite a few years ago.  But I do not own one and have never heard one of the diners in action.

I would go along with what 'Reading Fan' mentioned about Williams using QSI units. It would appear that somebody installed the OTT circuit board because every Crown Edition that I have seen has a QSI unit inside it.

As for OTT using QSI, I would highly doubt that! Maybe they could be used together if somebody installed it that way.

From what I know about Williams the diner car feature never took off. It was a want to be feature that never went to market, several passenger cars may have the openings in the molding for the soon to be sound system but that is probably all that ever happened.

Lee Fritz

If True Sounds was an option then why do some Williams boxes have it listed as a feature?

I am not wanting to dis-agree with you but I have not seen the passenger car version of train station sounds.

I was told by an independent Williams dealer, Carl S., that those never got made because Jerry Williams was low on finances.

The newer Williams by Bachmann, the newest GP-30's have a newer version of the True Blast-2 with two sounds being able to be accessed at one time, like the bell and horn.

Lee Fritz

There is a new thread on the Bachmann/Williams forum about the new sound system by WBB, 3rd rail or other admin person posted it. Claims the new sound system can play all sounds at one time unlike the True Blast 2, I think it is called True Blast plus.

Lee Fritz

Gordon Z,

Which auction site are you talking about? Flea bay(a.k.a. ebay) or www.choochooauctions.com ?

I trust Choo Choo auctions more then I trust the Flea bay.

Lee Fritz

I went to the Bachmann/Williams website and got the information about Station Sounds. According to 3rd rail the admin person "Station Sounds" never got made, the plug-in was made for it and the label was put on the box but that is all.

See the posting from 3-6-2012, item "Williams Station Sounds."

Lee Fritz