R-21 Subway not working with DCS

Not unless it is defective or damaged.  G

If the R21 comes up with lights (not just interior lights) and sounds as soon as it sees TIU power, it's missing the watchdog signal.

You say that other engines are able to be added to the app. If you have a DCS Remote, you can try adding the R21 to the remote. If it adds to the remote and works fine, I would suspect the app. If it doesn't add to the remote while your other engines do add, the engine's most likely the problem.

If you don't have a remote, then do a signal strength test using one of your other engines that did add to the app, and report what you learn.

If the R21 comes up with lights (not just interior lights) and sounds as soon as it sees TIU power, it's missing the watchdog signal.

This is exactly whats happening, its starting up conventionally, and continues to operate perfectly in conventional mode as if the TIU isn't even there. 

If you don't have a remote, then do a signal strength test using one of your other engines that did add to the app, and report what you learn.

No remote, but the app reads 10s on both other units  (PS2 SD60M #20-2763-1 & PS3 2-8-0 #20-3430-1) I had put on the track before and after the Subway power car. Made sure each time the TIU was powered up before applying track power.

Thanks!

This is exactly whats happening, its starting up conventionally, and continues to operate perfectly in conventional mode as if the TIU isn't even there.

No remote, but the app reads 10s on both other units  (PS2 SD60M #20-2763-1 & PS3 2-8-0 #20-3430-1) I had put on the track before and after the Subway power car. Made sure each time the TIU was powered up before applying track power.

Based on the above, it would appear that you have a problem with the R21 itself. Using the Z4000, try a transformer reset, as follows:

• Connect the Z4000 output to the track directly, bypassing the TIU. Make sure that the TIU's outputs are also disconnected from the track where the R21 resides.
• Place just the R21 power car in the track.
• Power up the track to 14-15 volts.
• On the Z4000, press the Horn button once, followed by the Bell button 5 times. Each press should be 1/2 second with 1/2 second pauses in-between.

If successful, the R21 will sound 2 short horn blasts. It may take a few tries before you get the timing right.

After the reset, try to add the engine again.

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Sounds like you have an old LOCAL SOUNDS Set per late 90's - 2000.

The R21 came in both Locosounds and PS2, and was released circa 2002. The OP clearly stated that it's a "PS2 5v R-21 Subway".

SIRT posted:

metsno1fan posted:

Could the early PS2 engines (this ones from 2000) have trouble reading a new TIU's signal? 

Maybe he should do some checking with this information below first?

Product Name: R21 4-Car Subway Set w/Loco-Sound

Product Catalog: 2000 Volume 2 - RailKing

Product Line: RailKing

Product Item Number: 30-2198-0

Price: $199.95

Delivery Status: Delivered JUL. 2000

Roadname: Metropolitan Transportation Authority

Product Description: R21 4-Car Subway Set w/Loco-Sound - NYMTA Cab # 7090, 7092, 7110, 7111

I assure you it's a PS2 set. I'll give the Z4000 a shot tonight after I get the kids in bed. 

Barry, Just performed the transformer reset, heard the two confirmation horns. Put it back on the track with a TIU, this time with the Z4000 as the transformer and still nothing. Engine operates in conventional mode and won't be found with the app. This has got me stumped..

Does it still come on with lights and sounds as soon as track power is turned on?

If not, what message do you get when attempting to add the engine to the remote?

It starts up just like it would conventionally. Power up the track and the interior lights come on imeadiately followed by the the front and marker lights a second later along with the start up sounds. Operates perfectly in conventional mode except for the fact that the TIU is powering the track! Responds to all PS2 commands like learn mode and station stop announcements from the Z4000  

I just have the app, but I go to add engines, it refreshes for a minute, briefly says something along the 'integrating engine' and then the message disappears and it just says 'no engine on track'. I get the same 'no engine' message when I hook the track up to the PC with the Subway on it. PC also reads my other engines just fine. 

Unfortunately, it sounds as if the problem is with the R21.

Did you try a different TIU channel " just with the tiu to determine if the engine is missing the watch dog signal?

 It should be  dark & silent. Seems like a engine problem or low dcs signal.

You don't need a remote for this test. 

You mentioned tiu was powered up before applying track power. Do you mean you use an aux power supply?

The watch dog goes out every time the voltage is raised above 0 on that channel. 

Yep. Tried both Fixed 1 and 2. Cant use Variable tracks yet since the premium version of the app isn't out yet. Using the Z4000 I had the left side hooked to Fixed 1 to power the TIU and the right to Fixed 2 for the track. Also tried Fixed 1 without external power for the TIU and track, so the TIU would power up with the transformer. 

I had two other engines on the exact same setup immediately before and after the R21 and both ran in DCS fine. Also measured 10 Signal Strength for those two engines. 

My guess is something in the R21 is missing the watchdog signal. It just perplexes me that it works fine otherwise. Is there a specific part of the PS2 5v boards that has to do with reading the DCS signal and is there any way to test it with a voltmeter?

I'd really hate to replace a perfectly functioning board just to be able to use it in command mode. 

We know proto-3 engines  will work with the red and black connections reversed at the track.  Can't be that because wasn't one of the engines a" proto-2 "that worked?   I'm just thinking out loud.

Gregg posted:

We know proto-3 engines  will work with the red and black connections reversed at the track.  Can't be that because wasn't one of the engines a" proto-2 "that worked?   I'm just thinking out loud.

I was actually just thinking about that. A PS2 3v engine worked fine with DCS in the exact same setup, unless the 5v boards were more sensitive to this? I have it wired exactly as shown in the manual, with Red to Center, Black to outside, but I'll give it a shot and reverse them tonight. 

Hi, just revisiting this topic and seeing if anyone as anymore ideas on what can be happening. Once again the TIU and WIU are finehooked up to Z4000 powering a loop of track around the tree. My app adds and controls PS2 and PS3 engines fine, but when my R21 Subway is placed on the track it ignores the TIU and operates in conventional mode. App won't recognize it either. 

If the engine always starts up in conventional mode, it is missing the DCS watchdog.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but mine is if it doesn't start up silently (in command mode) then no point trying to add it with the remote, fussing with the App, etc..  This is given that the engine operates perfectly in conventional and your other PS engines work fine in command.

As for something you can do "at home" all I can suggest is visually check the integrity of the unique component on the PS2 5V board which picks off the DCS command signal (and watchdog) from the track voltage.  It should look like this.  It's unbelievably improbable but maybe the ferrite donut is cracked, or one of the 4 connections is improperly soldered to the board, or whatever.