Radebaugh tunnels greensburg PA

What you call "witches tunnel" is actually Carrs Tunnel, and was on the original PRR mainline alignment. It was later in use as a branch that joined the current main at AX interlocking. The bridges, roadbed and steps up to the mainline are still there, right off Donohoe Road.

The "big" tunnel at Radebaugh is still there, it's just been turned into a cut (daylighted). The 2 main tracks pass through it. The old track 3 tunnel is gone; I believe it's been filled in though I'm told there are visible remnants of the east portal off Mt. Thor Road. That level spot on Greengate Road, just after you pass under the tracks, was a grade crossing on Track 3.

hey mike,  so if you go off Mt Thor road where that picture indicated the location.  its still there?  so they collapsed it?  or just filled the front ends?  I wondered if there were pictures of the thing from any point in time after they retired that track.  on bing you can see the remnants of the curve of the right of way a little. 

 

have you gone out to find this at all? 

 

Chris

Chris:

 

Based on the information that is available, I don't believe Lincoln's funeral train came anywhere close to Greensburg or the Radebaugh tunnels. 

 

According to everything I have ever read, the train moved from Washington to Harrisburg via Baltimore, then from Harrisburg to Philadelphia, thence to New York City; Buffalo, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis and so on. 

 

Getting back to the tunnels, the Charles Roberts book "Triumph I; Altoona to Pitcairn", has a couple good photos of both of the Radebaugh tunnels.

 

Curt

wow, thanks for the info.  I really appreciate it.  I love the local history of greensburg and I have the one book on it, the train station being one the greats of history stil in operation there with amtrak.  Im going to look into that book.  great!  thanks. 

Chris

Im going to take a trek out to where the abutements might be for the heck of it.  there is a road up there near the end of the tunnel.  if I can take pictures now, I will  because we are still in winter!  I want to document the path there before it gets developed or something

Minor threadjack here, but here's some interesting Lincoln funeral train info:

 

http://rogerjnorton.com/Lincoln51.html

 

and this one has a map:

 

http://www.lincoln-highway-mus...MC/WHMC-LFTR-01.html

 

 

Chris:

I pulled the book off the shelf when I got home from work.  The photos of the Radebaugh tunnels are on pages 302-306 along with diagrams of the original and "new" track work for both tunnels.

You may be able to find this book on Amazon.  It was published in 1997 as the first in a series of four books on the history of the PRR (Triumph I - IV).  The other three covered the Philadelphia Terminal Division; the Philadelphia Division and the Middle Division.  I have nos. I and IV that cover the Pittsburgh and Middle Divisions respectively. 

These books are excellent resources for anyone interested in the history of the PRR and, in addition to an excellent written account, contain many obscure photos that I have never seen in other PRR books.

Scratch the "may" be able to find it on Amazon.  They do have it for $45.
Curt

As a kid, 55 -60 years ago, I visited my grandma whose backyard was adjacent to track 4 as it exited the old  tunnel going west. Many times I walked through both the old tunnel and the new Radebaugh tunnel to go to Greensburg. I seem to recall a foundry or power station along track 4 near the Greensburg side of the old tunnel. It is  about a 1/2 mile from where track 4, going WB, bends off the main line to go to old tunnel. There was a small stream nearby.

They were  exciting times to watch the trains  in the late forties and fifties! I feel I was blest to be a part of that era and to have survived going in and out of those tunnels regularly. And playing around on Klakas coal mine above and near the tunnels. Makes one believe in guardian angels.

 

Ray

As a kid, 55 -60 years ago, I visited my grandma whose backyard was adjacent to track 4 as it exited the old  tunnel going west. Many times I walked through both the old tunnel and the new Radebaugh tunnel to go to Greensburg. I seem to recall a foundry or power station along track 4 near the Greensburg side of the old tunnel. It is  about a 1/2 mile from where track 4, going WB, bends off the main line to go to old tunnel. There was a small stream nearby.

They were  exciting times to watch the trains  in the late forties and fifties! I feel I was blest to be a part of that era and to have survived going in and out of those tunnels regularly. And playing around on Klakas coal mine above and near the tunnels. Makes one believe in guardian angels.

 

Ray

ray,  did you ever take photos of the tunnels or anything around that area?  do you think you can still see anything off the road that is besides the carpet palace? it winds in the back to a few houses back there near what would be the opening.  Bing and google maps show something there. 

 

thanks for your info.

Chris, I did not take any pictures of the tunnels. But there are some on the internet. Also, Edwin Alexander's PRR history book has a pic of the old tunnel.

 

I last walked to the old tunnel around 1980. It was still accessible both from the west side and the east side. On the west I just followed the impression of the ROW from Carpet Palace. If you want,  you can drive down Armstrong road, just above Carpet Palace, and park a 100'+/-by the last white frame house on the right and follow the ROW to where the tunnel was. It was not hard to do.  From the Greensburg side, I followed the Main Line from the Amtrack station, now locked, until the site was found where the old track 4 veered off to the right about 45 degrees and followed the impression left from the tracks. That's where the foundry or power plant was. It was very interesting. Hope this helps. Google shows this area.

Ray

Hi Ray, thanks for the info.  Im going to check it out before the trees leaf out and take some pics.  Ill share what I find.  I wondered which way you could access from the other side.  So you walked from the train station toward that track 4 turnoff? and there was an old foundry?  I noticed down in grapeville an old glass plant there still in ruins, the hempfield twp told them to tear it down, but nothing on that yet.  I might model that old foundry into my new layout

On the other hand, Edgar A. Custer, a relation of George Armstrong Custer, did run PRR trains through Greensburg....and he stopped there too...From his autobiography - No Royal Road

 

As we pitched over the hill down to Greensburg, we were running at least seventy miles an hour. The rods were whitish blurs, the exhaust a continuous roar. It was a terrific speed for sixty-six-inch drivers. As I reached for the whistle rope to blow for the tunnel directly east of Greensburg station, I partially turned and saw Brady's head rise over the coal pile in the glare of the fire as George opened the door. Like a blow in the face it struck! We had forgotten the stop at Greensburg! It was done in a second - I slammed the lever into reverse, jerked the sand lever wide open, and twitched the brake valve into emergency. The shock was terrific! George landed on the hot lamp tops and Brady...did you ever see a street car plowing through deep slush at a high rate of speed? Well, that's the way Brady came through the coal pile. Every passenger made an effort to butt into the berth ahead and with every wheel locked solid, Western Express skated a train length beyond the station. The lone passenger for whom the stop was made, had stepped into the aisle. He and his satchel rolled swiftly between the berths into Compartment A. When the train came to a jarring stop, Brady was sitting on the apron completely loaded with coal, bulging like an alderman, his right arm dangling uselessly. I was jerking the reverse lever back and forth in an effort to shake the brake shoes loose when Dan Kearney, the conductor, came running up to the gangway. Blood was streaming from his nose and mouth. "You curly headed so-and-so! What the **** you trying to do?" he sputtered. There was nothing to say. God knows I felt badly enough. "I was making the stop at Greensburg." I squeaked in a small voice. They carried the lone passenger into the station.

Great story about Custer. Actually, The hamlet of Radebaugh was a flag stop on the PRR mainline going back to 1900  or so.  A small station, more like a shed, stood near where the cutoff is for the SWRR. My uncle used the PRR passenger service daily for decades to commute to the Westinghouse plant in East Pittsburgh.   Also, One of PRR's engineneers lived in Radebaugh. I knew his grand kids very well when I was a kid.

 

If I wanted to go to the Greensburg/foundry side of the old tunnel, I would drive to Thor road to the RR bridge area, park, and walk and look for the cutoff to the old tunnel. Or just find the tunnel from Carpet Palce, described above, walk over the old tunnel, around the old coal mine, to the Greensburg side and investigate from there.

 

Westmoreland Glass Company, in Grapeville, burned down some years ago. It was once famous for its  decorative glass. I toured their museum about 45 years ago. All hand blown fancy stuff. They located in Grapeville because of the abundant natural gas available there as well as the siding with the PRR. At the time, all of the employees/residents of Grapeville had free natural gas for there homes. 

 

Ray

wow cool story.   thanks for the info! 

 

Chris