Radios in steam engines

The PRR had radio-equipped locomotives in the late 40s/early 50s; remember the "handrail" antennas on some locomotives and cabin cars. K-Line offered the N5C both with and without the antenna.

PRR's Trainphone system was a short-range, 2-channel induction radio.  One channel was for in-train communication (locomotive to cabin car) and the other was for communicating with the closest tower operator.  PRR typically passed trains tower to tower.  The dispatcher talked to the tower operators, but not directly to the trains.  All of that Lionel and MTH "crew talk" on their steam locomotives is fantasy.

What did the engineer and the fireman actually say to each other in the steam era, if anything?  I've read accounts by firemen who wrote that the engineer would say almost nothing at all for an entire trip, especially if the fireman was new on the job. I got the impression that there wasn't a lot of camaraderie in the cab in the steam days: "You do your job, I'll do mine, and otherwise just shut up."

I would think the engineer's attention would be fully focused on the rail ahead and the behemoth that he was operating, with little left for idle chatter.

Ray

Plus the cab of a steam locomotive can be very noisy. Even if the fireman were standing next to him, he'd have to shout pretty loudly to be heard by the engineer. Easier to carry on a conversation in a diesel cab.

@wjstix posted:

Plus the cab of a steam locomotive can be very noisy. Even if the fireman were standing next to him, he'd have to shout pretty loudly to be heard by the engineer. Easier to carry on a conversation in a diesel cab.

Plus the fireman isn't nearly as busy in the diesel cab.

Motorola produced a total solid state hand-held two-way radio specifically for railroad use in the engine cabs and the freight yards. They also produced a two-way radio for subway transit engines.

@BOB WALKER posted:

Motorola produced a total solid state hand-held two-way radio specifically for railroad use in the engine cabs and the freight yards. They also produced a two-way radio for subway transit engines.

What year/years?

Minneapolis Morning Tribune; December 15, 1922

The Motorola cab radios and transit engine radios were produced and functional in the mid 1960's.

Personally, as a fan of fantasy (Phantom, Area 51, etc.) stuff, I'm hoping for some witty cell phone conversations in the next Civil War era remakes of the General .

@BOB WALKER posted:

The Motorola cab radios and transit engine radios were produced and functional in the mid 1960's.

Well, steam locomotives used in regular service were long on by then.

As Boc Bartizek pointed out, "crew talk" on O gauge steam locomotives is pure fantasy.  But many enjoy the feature.  Each to his own.

When a steam locomotive is working, it is way too noisy for chit-chat, and, in fact for almost any verbal conversation across the cab.  Hand signals were used for some things such as calling out the upcoming signal indication.  The arm was used like a semaphore blade -- horizontal, 45 degree angle, or vertical -- and opening and closing the fist indicated a flashing signal aspect.

The Engineer had custody of the Train Orders, but the Fireman was required to read them (after the Engineer, of course) and remember instructions contained therein, such as speed restrictions, track gangs, meeting points fixed by Train Order.  Because it was likely to result in being unpleasantly rebuked, Firemen did not generally call the Engineer's attention to upcoming meets and restrictions unless it was apparent that there was no required action of the part of the Engineer.  

Unfortunately, in the steam era there were a good number of Engineers who were little kings in their own view, very unpleasant while at work, and some of those just plainly did not like Firemen.  Those Engineers did not say even one unnecessary word to a Fireman, and some did not speak to Firemen at all, unless it was to criticize the Fireman for something.  One on the Santa Fe Los Angeles Division was particularly snarky until a big, strong Fireman who had endured enough verbal abuse, took the Engineer by the back of his overall suspenders, opened the fire door, put the old man's head into the opening for a second, and singed the old man's eyebrows off.  After that preview of the place of eternal punishment, the old sourpuss Engineer made a 180 degree turn in his attitude and treated Firemen very well.  I knew the Fireman, who by then was an Engineer near the top of the seniority list, and he told me exactly what happened.  Other Engineers who were steam Firemen verified the complete change of attitude.

But they still could not have conversation across the cab when the engine was working steam because of the high noise level.  And, very often, the atmosphere in the cab was unpleasant and not friendly.