I've been looking over my collection here and there and I'm looking to spice up my freight rolling stock a bit. Plus I have always wondered what is rare or what is pretty common. I know rarity or scarcity does not always dictate that an item holds or increases in value but I can't help but be curious. Can anyone tell me or post pics of some rare Lionel, MTH, K-Line, etc. cars??
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I was always told the MTH Mitsu steel coil car was rare.
Last I knew, price guides gave an indication or rarity.
The way I see it, nothing that was put into full production is truly rare.
Folks got into speculating on the future values of "rare" modern era stuff for a while.
A lot of trains were bought and sold at those rare prices. Then the bottom fell out, and those who paid high would now take a big loss if they sold.
Buy what you like, forget about future value.
That written:
In the very early 1970's Glen Uhl had Lionel make some Timken boxcars just for him. I think there are three versions. They are genuine Lionel production, made in low numbers, and still fetch a good buck.
I've only seen this This K-Line tank car once in over 15 years of being in the hobby.
For a while this MTH all-door boxcar would sell for top dollar at shows.
mike.caruso posted:I've only seen this This K-Line tank car once in over 15 years of being in the hobby.
For a while this MTH all-door boxcar would sell for top dollar at shows.
What's the third pic you have in your photo attachments? (Santa Fe hopper) Is it a rare bird also?
C W Burfle posted:Last I knew, price guides gave an indication or rarity.
The way I see it, nothing that was put into full production is truly rare.
Folks got into speculating on the future values of "rare" modern era stuff for a while.
A lot of trains were bought and sold at those rare prices. Then the bottom fell out, and those who paid high would now take a big loss if the sold.
Buy what you like, forget about future value.
That written:
In the very early 1970's Glen Uhl had Lionel make some Timken boxcars just for him. I think there are three versions. They are genuine Lionel production, made in low numbers, and still fetch a good buck.
People always do tend to exaggerate the prices of anything that is considered rare or hard to find. I'm not really concerned about future value. It's more of a "thrill of the hunt" type of feeling when you find something that you've been searching for all this time and now you have managed to come across one.
I don't know how scarce they are, but I think you might find it interesting to look for the trains that Lionel offered for direct sale in 1986.
There were:
8606 B&A Semiscale Hudson* (cab #784)
6231 Railgon gondola
6134 BN Hopper (new mold)
6233 CP Flat
6230 Erie reefer
6232 IC boxcar
6920 B&A caboose (new mold)
6907 NYC caboose (new mold)
I believe that all the cars were considered to be Standard "O".
I didn't buy them when they came out, but picked up two of the locomotives at what I thought were great prices. (They have dropped in price even more since). I see them on EBay from time to time.
I have the NYC caboose, and see them offered on EBay with some regularity.
I have not noticed the rest of the rolling stock very often.
I do look for them once in a while.
* - Lionel reused the number, there are also small 2-6-4 locomotives with 8606 on the cab. Technically I think they are 18606, but that number does not appear on the loco.
What's the third pic you have in your photo attachments? (Santa Fe hopper) Is it a rare bird also?
Oh, that one. LOL I was kind of debating whether to include it. K-Line Santa Fe chrome hoppers. Not super rare, but a bit hard to find.
It's more of a "thrill of the hunt" type of feeling when you find something that you've been searching for all this time and now you have managed to come across one.
Collecting is fun 
I guess that I would ask if you are taking about cars that really were in use,or fantasy cars?
There are early MTH cars that were considered rare and in short supply,all fantasy. A black PRR tank car comes to mind,a Premier car.
Then there were some of the early flats with four autos,some of these are rare and commanded big bucks at the time.
Norm
Norm posted:I guess that I would ask if you are taking about cars that really were in use,or fantasy cars?
There are early MTH cars that were considered rare and in short supply,all fantasy. A black PRR tank car comes to mind,a Premier car.
Then there were some of the early flats with four autos,some of these are rare and commanded big bucks at the time.
Norm
Both in use and fantasy. Just anything you don't see too often.
Probably the rarest Lionel modern pieces I can think of that still hold up are the contents of the Carail freight set from 1994. The locomotive (a repainted 18011 Chessie T-1 in either blue or white - white being rarer) and the signed L-logo boxcar - item #6-52054 - in particular are very hard to find.
I must say, since I’ve been looking for one at what I believe would be a reasonable price, the Lionel gold caboose made to accompany their gold Hudson seems rare.
When offered I chose to get on the list for the gold Hudson with case. When they arrived I quickly noticed that the case was made to accommodate both the gold Hudson and gold caboose. Periodically I search for the gold caboose, but when I find one they are pricey. (I haven’t looked in a couple years, so they might be more reasonable by now, or gone up further.)
Being in Rhode Island - I would pay big money for one of these posted above. I worked for the Providence & Worcester RR and have switched out the old Colfax yard in Pawtucket. A generous "finders fee" is also available. Thanks,
Paul
Some folks say that the KMT/Franks Roundhouse boxcar lettered for UPS is rare, but I have around sixty of them. Makes a cool unit train that looks like it is bringing more trains to my house.
Some folks say that the KMT/Franks Roundhouse boxcar lettered for UPS is rare, but I have around sixty of them. Makes a cool unit train that looks like it is bringing more trains to my house.
LOL, that's why they are rare. You have a good part of the run.
mike.caruso posted:I've only seen this This K-Line tank car once in over 15 years of being in the hobby.
For a while this MTH all-door boxcar would sell for top dollar at shows.
Colfax used to be a p and w custoumer here in Rhode Island, near the former new haven northup ave yard, I used to see pr2 leaving valley falls with lots of track cars going to their plant. I never saw any 𝐓𝐚𝐧𝐤 cars painted for colfax, usually just plain black ones. I assume this car was a fantasy paint scheme?
“Rare” today can mean not so rare tomorrow, in my experience. Over the 9 years or so that I have been in this hobby items once rare and impossible to find come up and then come up again and again, then disappear again, almost like waves.
The thrill of the hunt is definitely more fun than those caught after a while, the shine fades as the trill dies off a bit, but it sure can be exciting to find that long sought after car or engine.
I might suggest spending some time looking at the hundreds / thousands of photos and making a list of cars that appeal to you, or that you find exciting, the ones you see often are most likely less rare whereas those seldom seem are most likely rarer.
On all questions of value, just skip it over, this is a hobby and like any hobby there is a cost which cannot be recovered. Ever try to sell an older used boat for what you paid for it, how about a used pool table, or classic car you restored, there is nearly always a loss, sometimes big sometime small, but plan of playing to have played with anything. There are exceptions, but I have found them few and far between, especially in this hobby.
Glenn Fresch posted:mike.caruso posted:I've only seen this This K-Line tank car once in over 15 years of being in the hobby.
Colfax used to be a p and w custoumer here in Rhode Island, near the former new haven northup ave yard, I used to see pr2 leaving valley falls with lots of track cars going to their plant. I never saw any 𝐓𝐚𝐧𝐤 cars painted for colfax, usually just plain black ones. I assume this car was a fantasy paint scheme?
No idea. According to the K-Line Legacy site, this was in the 2005 catalog with delivery scheduled for the beginning of the following year. Whether it actually made it into production or not I can't say. 
check out this thread from a few years ago.
ed h posted:check out this thread from a few years ago.
I had forgotten about MTH's "The Andersons" Centerflow Hopper. EXTREMELY rare.
mike.caruso posted:
ed h posted:check out this thread from a few years ago.
I had forgotten about MTH's "The Andersons" Centerflow Hopper. EXTREMELY rare.
That is a very beautiful car indeed! I came across this I Love Toy Trains piece on Ebay and I’m told these are somewhat tough to come by nowadays. A limited run to my knowledge correct me if I am wrong.
The controversial "Lionel York" boxcar offered at York a few meets ago comes to mind. Supposedly only 50 were made.
If they had made 500 though, they probably would have only sold 100 since there would not have been such hype, and might have needed to blow out 400 of them at a loss.
That one was a manufactured rarity by design, but it seems a fitting example for this thread.
I'd also suggest nearly any TCA convention "Banquet car" that is generally a modified version of a standard offering of a convention car. Those are typically produced to support one per table at the convention (with some small number of spares probably ending up among convention organizers/volunteers, I suspect (to make the minimum order quantity)- but still a very low production number in most cases, I bet).
-Dave
The controversial "Lionel York" boxcar offered at York a few meets ago comes to mind. Supposedly only 50 were made.
Sorry, but I cannot see the point of trying to collect items that were artificially made into "collectors items" by making severely short runs. I exclude anything that wasn't made for full distribution to the general public.
C W Burfle posted:The controversial "Lionel York" boxcar offered at York a few meets ago comes to mind. Supposedly only 50 were made.
Sorry, but I cannot see the point of trying to collect items that were artificially made into "collectors items" by making severely short runs. I exclude anything that wasn't made for full distribution to the general public.
This part of Mark's request is why I was mentioning that car:
"Plus I have always wondered what is rare or what is pretty common. I know rarity or scarcity does not always dictate that an item holds or increases in value but I can't help but be curious."
I am not specifically suggesting he try to acquire one.
Whether one agrees with the method under which these were produced or not, as a Lionel produced/offered item at 50 pieces, they probably qualify as one of the most rare in terms of how many exist.
-Dave
Dave45681 posted:C W Burfle posted:The controversial "Lionel York" boxcar offered at York a few meets ago comes to mind. Supposedly only 50 were made.
Sorry, but I cannot see the point of trying to collect items that were artificially made into "collectors items" by making severely short runs. I exclude anything that wasn't made for full distribution to the general public.
This part of Mark's request is why I was mentioning that car:
"Plus I have always wondered what is rare or what is pretty common. I know rarity or scarcity does not always dictate that an item holds or increases in value but I can't help but be curious."
I am not specifically suggesting he try to acquire one.
Whether one agrees with the method under which these were produced or not, as a Lionel produced/offered item at 50 pieces, they probably qualify as one of the most rare in terms of how many exist.
-Dave
Exactly. I’m not exclusively looking to buy all kinds of “rare” items. What made me ask this question is because I see people online (more specifically on ebay) add the word rare to the ebay ads. As a O scale modeler and operator on the younger end of the age spectrum in this hobby and getting older too. I’ve been slowly paying attention to smaller details that are rather interesting to know in my opinion.
What made me ask this question is because I see people online (more specifically on ebay) add the word rare to the ebay ads.
1 - Rare is a very overused word.
2 - never trust an EBay listing. Whether it's by accident or intentional, EBay listings are fraught with inaccurate information.
My favorites are the listings for 6414 automobiles in odd colors. Sellers like to claim they came from Madison Hardware, but so far, nobody has claimed to have ever seen or purchased any direct from the store. I think I even saw a set creep onto one of the online auction sites with the Madison Hardware attribute. Where is the proof?
C W Burfle posted:What made me ask this question is because I see people online (more specifically on ebay) add the word rare to the ebay ads.
1 - Rare is a very overused word.
2 - never trust an EBay listing. Whether it's by accident or intentional, EBay listings are fraught with inaccurate information.
My favorites are the listings for 6414 automobiles in odd colors. Sellers like to claim they came from Madison Hardware, but so far, nobody has claimed to have ever seen or purchased any direct from the store. I think I even saw a set creep onto one of the online auction sites with the Madison Hardware attribute. Where is the proof?
Very true on Numbers 1 and 2.
AmeenTrainGuy posted:When I first saw this topic one question came to mind: What is considered modern? Many experts consider anything from the 1970's to today as modern, some only consider the 2000's to today as modern. I think the first choice is more correct since most people follow that rule. That being said let me share a few rarities that I have come across:
- The 2002 Blue Comet Set
In 2002 Lionel introduced the Blue Comet passenger set along with the Southern Crescent passenger set, only 1,000 units were produced, and the entire set is quite hard to find. The set came with a 4-6-2 Pacific die-cast metal locomotive and tender, baggage car, two coaches, and an observation car. The set will fetch good prices if in mint condition. The station-sound car was offered later in the 2002 volume 2 catalog and is one of the most sought-after station-sound cars in Lionel History. I have seen them go on eBay for as high as $700-$1000 in mint condition. Very few of these cars were made (only about 100) and they are quite rare. They are different from most station-sounds car because not many of the sounds can be triggered conventional, but using a TMCC remote all of the sounds become available.
2. MPC Lionel Blue Comet Train Set, 8801 Steam Locomotives with all Passenger Cars + the addon car
Not many MPC era sets are considered rare Lionel offered this set with another set just like it painted in Southern Crescent colors. The set included a 4-6-4 steam locomotive an tender and 4 other cars, a diner car was later introduced to make the total six. Finding this set in mint-condition with all 5 cars is very hard, it can cost quite a bit sets ranging from $600 - $900 depending on condition. That price is quite high considering it is a 0-27 train and not a prototypical model. The same goes for the Southern Crescent set although it may be a bit cheaper.
~Ameen
I have the mpc Blue comet set and if you ever see a set priced between $600-$900, run away! Way over priced.
The set usually goes for $250--$350 if mint
Dave
Here is a cautionary tale about "rare" items.
When Lionel did the first Century Club, it started with an "early bird" raffle. People who joined before a certain date were to have their name entered in a raffle to win one of the locomotives. When it was pointed out to them that the legality of this raffle was questionable, they canceled it, and sent all the "early birds" a special boxcar that could not be purchased. I think this happened after the "early bird" window closed, so nobody could join to get the boxcar once it was announced.
The prices on those boxcars climbed up to $500, maybe more. (I knew a fellow who actually got $500). Today interest in that boxcar has vanished.
There has been an unboxed one in excellent condition at the last few train shows for $20. As far as I know, the seller still has it.
In my roster, it is my Brother Love N&W Dynamometer Car. This was built using blueprints I purchased from NWHS. He does simply amazing work. It is one of four. Good luck ever finding one of these on the secondary market.
Lionel, MTH, Atlas, et al will never make this car. Each railroad typically had "one", and no two were alike.
I also concur on the Natty Boh car. I got one when they were first issued and then paid dearly for the second. They are in my group of "never-sell" items.
One car I see in demand is the MTH Coors Light train tail car. Seems not many are available for separate sale anymore.
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