Re: MTH 44 Toner engine - is it truly O scale?

GE 44 Tonners are 33' 5" coupler tip to coupler tip.

Considering O-gauge couplers are oversized, my guess an O-scale GE 44 Tonner should be between 7 1/2" and 7 3/4" sill to sill.

They are 13.25' high. As a reference the F3 is 14.67' high to top of vent fans

In O scale the engine would be about 8" over the body and 3.5" tall.  Here's a link to a PRR drawing of the 44 tonner.

http://prr.railfan.net/diagram...ie&sz=lg&fr=

jan

The MTH carbody is definitely more scale than the Williams scale carbody version [but not by much]. Its the "lobster claw" couplers that might make it look awkward but thats a concession I will take for compatability and resale value should I decide to part with it. Otherwise its a great value for what you get in a scale model!

The issue with the MTH 44-Ton is reliability of the power pickup through the wheels.  Several people have posted solutions here with wipers on the wheels to help solve this issue.  Suffice to say, until I get a chance to do something similar, my MTH 44-Ton locomotive is a shelf queen, it craps out on both of my Ross Double-Slip switches as well as the Ross curves switches.  Yes, the switches DO have relay switching of the center roller power, but since the issue is power pickup through the wheels, that doesn't really help.

Prototype Photo with EV caboose.

Rusty

Thanks Gents. Barely ran mine yet. The caboose looks massive dwarfing over it. Just didn't look "right" I am not a hardcore modeler either.

To me it seems that the size is just right. I used mine a lot. I have MTH tracks and I have no issues stalling out. Although I’m not too fond of the MTH turnouts.

Nice looking Milwaukee road!

  It's true "O" scale.

Never had any stalling issues going over manual Gargraves old and new style switches. Trouble free operation!

Sound #10 is messed up.

When mine was track power, I do not recall too many issues with O-72, #4 and #6 switches.  Now its battery powered and I have no track issues whatsoever.

Have Fun!

Ron

The stalling issue is pretty easy to fix.  With the MTH parts site up and running, you might be able to get a wheel/axle set with solid wheels and do a single wheel swap.  I just made metal traction tires.  No big deal.

I have three of these and love them!  I did find the frame to be about 1/8" short on both ends for fixing the pilot.  I did not check its accuracy with real prints.

The finished product

It is scale, and it ranks my favorite switcher. I think I still have four of them at the present time: Army (2 ea.), Strasburg, and Amtrak. Will undoubtedly be buying more in the future.

I agree that running them through my Ross double-slip switch is somewhat problematic, so I take the lazy way out (for now, at least) and bypass that switch by selecting another route when I'm running the 44-tonners.

My only issue is Ross 096 switches and 096 curve switches where it Stalls out under 10 mph.

Mikey

Thanks everyone again for your feedback. This engine just looks so small compared to a few of my true O scale boxcars and the caboose shown earlier. I STILL love it! Way cool little engine.

Best,

Ron W.

I pulled out my MTH 44-ton locomotive to check again on the DSS, and HORRORS!  As soon as it got track power it took off that top speed with no lights or sound!  RATS, that's a shorted motor lead or a board failure!

With fingers crossed, I pulled the shell.  That it itself is a PITA, but without the shell it ran normally???  At least it's nothing fatal.  I wrapped all the wires and pulled them out of the way of the shell, my top suspect.  I also covered the motor connections with Kapton tape as where is zero clearance to the shell for those.  I gingerly put it all back together again, and it runs!   I was sure I was in for a nasty surprise when I first powered it up.

It actually makes it across my DSS switches as long as it's moving at 10 MPH or faster, but slow speed it drops dead on them.  However, today it was making it over the two curved switches on the mainline without difficulty.  I even drove it into my new yard and picked up a string of tank cars and ran them around a few times.  I attribute some of it's new found reliability to treating the axles with Deoxit-D5 to see if I could improve conductivity, apparently it helped.  Maybe it can occasionally come off the shelf after all.

One of the great things about this little engine is the super sound, I do really love the sound and it's more than sufficient volume for a little engine.

@David Minarik posted:

The stalling issue is pretty easy to fix.  With the MTH parts site up and running, you might be able to get a wheel/axle set with solid wheels and do a single wheel swap.  I just made metal traction tires.  No big deal.

The finished product

Hey David,

How does one make metal traction tires?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I pulled out my MTH 44-ton locomotive to check again on the DSS, and HORRORS!  As soon as it got track power it took off that top speed with no lights or sound!  RATS, that's a shorted motor lead or a board failure!

With fingers crossed, I pulled the shell.  That it itself is a PITA, but without the shell it ran normally???  At least it's nothing fatal.  I wrapped all the wires and pulled them out of the way of the shell, my top suspect.  I also covered the motor connections with Kapton tape as where is zero clearance to the shell for those.  I gingerly put it all back together again, and it runs!   I was sure I was in for a nasty surprise when I first powered it up.

It actually makes it across my DSS switches as long as it's moving at 10 MPH or faster, but slow speed it drops dead on them.  However, today it was making it over the two curved switches on the mainline without difficulty.  I even drove it into my new yard and picked up a string of tank cars and ran them around a few times.  I attribute some of it's new found reliability to treating the axles with Deoxit-D5 to see if I could improve conductivity, apparently it helped.  Maybe it can occasionally come off the shelf after all.

One of the great things about this little engine is the super sound, I do really love the sound and it's more than sufficient volume for a little engine.

Good news John. Take the victories where you can get them. Maybe it can live in the yard on permanent assignment?

Bob

@David Minarik posted:

The stalling issue is pretty easy to fix.  With the MTH parts site up and running, you might be able to get a wheel/axle set with solid wheels and do a single wheel swap.

I find it interesting that they offer such a wheel set, obviously they know this is a problem!   I suspect replacing one of the wheel sets with this would improve it.  Given the weight and the intended use of a switcher, I may consider just replacing all the traction tires with these.

@RSJB18 posted:

Good news John. Take the victories where you can get them. Maybe it can live in the yard on permanent assignment?

I just ordered two sets of the geared wheelsets with no traction tires.  I'm going to go "traction tire free" and see if that improves the operation over my switches.  Since they offer the wheelsets without the tires, it seems clear they thought it might be an issue.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I just ordered two sets of the geared wheelsets with no traction tires.  I'm going to go "traction tire free" and see if that improves the operation over my switches.  Since they offer the wheelsets without the tires, it seems clear they thought it might be an issue.

I have a bunch of K-line Plymouth's. No traction tires on them and they can pull a decent size string of cars on flat track.

@RSJB18 posted:

I have a bunch of K-line Plymouth's. No traction tires on them and they can pull a decent size string of cars on flat track.

I was pulling 13 tank cars around my layout with the MTH 44-Ton locomotive, it didn't have any issue with the 2.5% long grade, so I think it would have sufficient traction without traction tires for a switcher.

GRJ,

Do you have the MTH part number for the traction tire free wheel sets?

Your 44 tonners should run much better without the tires.

@ctr posted:

Do you have the MTH part number for the traction tire free wheel sets?

You apparently didn't look at my previous post.   Check at the top of the graphic...

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I find it interesting that they offer such a wheel set, obviously they know this is a problem!   I suspect replacing one of the wheel sets with this would improve it.  Given the weight and the intended use of a switcher, I may consider just replacing all the traction tires with these.

@swise posted:

Hey David,

How does one make metal traction tires?

I am also interested in learning how this is done.  Especially since the replacement wheelsets are curently out of stock at MTH Parts.

In fact, an article on all the work you did to get to "the finished product" (as seen in your last photo) would be greatly appreciated.

GRJ,

Thank you. I missed that post.

GRJ,

MTH parts website says the wheel sets without traction tires are out of stock.
Do you think that they are only available through authorized repair people like you?

Maybe they only had two, my order went through without a hitch.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe they only had two, my order went through without a hitch.

No they had 8. I ordered 6 as soon as I got notification of your post and yes they are gone for now.

I'm glad I bought mine when I did!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm glad I bought mine when I did!

Me too thanks for the part number. I have been waiting for the parts listings to be there to order them.

@Shawn_Chronister posted:

No they had 8. I ordered 6 as soon as I got notification of your post and yes they are gone for now.

they must have had 10.  I ordered two after reading GRJs post.

Apparently, they got's none now!

I will see if I can convince Dave Minarik to do an article on how he fixed his 44-tonner stalling problem. Would make a good Team Track article for the magazine (and could possibly appear on the forum after publication). Be advised, though, that Dave has access to shop tools and other "stuff" that may not be readily available to many or most of us. I'll ask him about this possibility, and will even contribute a 44-tonner for the procedure so he can document things step-by-step.

Sadly Allan, you are correct.  I suspect Dave has stuff that most of us don't have or know how to use.

Allan Miller,

Few, if any of us, have access to the tools that Dave used.

It would be better for most of us to convince MTH to make a significant number of wheel sets without traction tires available for purchase.

Removing the old wheel sets and replacing them with the new ones is a rather simple task that most of us can accomplish with a screw driver.

As Gunrunnerjohn will find out, removing the traction tires on the driven axles will cure substantially all of the stalling issues for this great engine.

Sounds like I will be adding a Rich Yoder 44 toner down the road. 

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sadly Allan, you are correct.  I suspect Dave has stuff that most of us don't have or know how to use.

That's really the only concern that I would have, as well. I know Dave would do it in a minute if he felt it was a process others could do as well.

Obviously, the very easiest fix is for MTH to provide a easy-to-do replacement part. With Mike Reagan being an integral part of that operation now, perhaps he will use his considerable influence to see that some reasonable solution is found. It will NOT happen overnight, of course, but I learned long ago that patience is truly a valuable virtue to have in this hobby.

Yep, I'm eager to see how the new wheelsets do on my locomotive.  I was thinking of pulling wheels, but I didn't have a source for wheels of the right size to replace them with.  This mod with the correct wheelsets looks to be very easy to do.

@swise posted:

Hey David,

How does one make metal traction tires?

I made mine on a small lathe.  I would suggest looking for tubing with the correct ID and OD for individuals who don't have machining skills or equipment.   To my knowledge, nobody has even tried that option.

The best option by far would be to buy the wheel/axle set listed above and swap out one solid wheel for one traction tire wheel on the two drive axles.   You just need a puller to do that.

And yes....MTH knew about this.