Reanimating my DCS, time to "call it"?

Alan,

1) What format is the ebook "The DCS O Gauge Companion" in?  I have the paper version on order but would purchase the ebook version if it's a DRM free pdf.

It's DRM-free. however, it is password protected. You may install it on as many of your computers and devices as you like.

2) Should I be planning on replacing all of my batteries after three years in storage?  (no leakage found so far).

No, just replace them as they wear out. You should get 5 years out of a battery, sometimes more.

3) Can I use Li-ion 9v batteries? 

You can, however, I'd check with MTH first regarding the use of rechargeable them with the charging circuit in PS2 engines.

4) Should I reset the system?  I noticed that all my engines still show on the system, kinda of amazing after 3 years in a box.

I would, however, it's not really necessary.

5) Should I upgrade from v3.0 to v4.x now or later?

Now.

Aloha Barry and thanks for the reply.

I purchased your ebook book and plan to revive this thing over the weekend. Going to hunt for the cables too, I bought a USB to serial cable about a year ago, if I can just find it!

Alan

I did the exact same thing with the same cable, then we moved. I just bought another one a couple months ago.  Original one is still missing. Hope you have better luck.

Alan here, the original poster.

After reading parts of Barry's DCS book I think the problem with my DCS system not reading any engines is being caused by what I read on page #153:

"Some modern transformers regulate voltage by chopping the AC power sine wave.  The smaller MTH transformers (Z500, Z750 and Z1000) each consist of a brick, as well as a control device, the Z-Controller. Since the Z-Controller regulates power by chopping the sine wave, it is strongly suggested that, when used to power TIU channels, the Z500, Z750 and Z1000 bricks be directly connected to the input of the TIU channels without the use of the Z-Controller. MTH provides a adapter. (MTH# 50-1017)

I'm using a Z-1000 (previously I used a Z-4000, but it's in storage) With no dealers stocking the adapter closer than 2,000 miles east of me, I want to give making an adapter a try this weekend.

I purchased a Radio Shack barrel adapter, female side, and it fits the male output of the Z-1000 power brick quite well.  Now I just have to figure out which is red and which is black.  Using a multimeter to measure resistance and  opening up the "control device", I have decided that the outside contact is black (-) and the inside pin is red (+).

Anyone care to offer an opinion?

Oh and correct me if I'm wrong, since it's AC the worse that would happen is it would be out of phase, but my TIU wouldn't be harmed if I crossed the black and red wires.

 Thanks in advance.

I'm trying to make one of these:

Just checked my MTH TIU/Barrel jack adapter cable with a meter, the inner pin is the red lead, the outer jacket is the black lead.

Just a thought here and it's been a while for me, but when I first got my DCS system I had one loop of track (RealTrax that came with an MTH set). It was one pretty small continuous loop. I had errors with detecting engines. After reading Barry's book I isolated the center rail between two sections of track and that made a big difference in detecting the engines, and I believe it cured all my errors.

With the continuous loop of track the DCS signal meets itself going around the track and gets confused. The isolation point stops the DCS signal from going back over itself and that ends the confusion. I probably didn't explain that very well, but it was something like that anyway. The book has all the correct details.

Thanks rtr12 for checking that out and replying!

And yes I am using the starter set loop, but I do have a switch to a spur in the middle, maybe that's enough, we'll see.

Alan

You are welcome.

I am not familiar with the Realtrax switches, but you need a break in the center rail somewhere in the loop. At least that helped a lot with my setup. I had no switches.

Thanks rtr12!  -  my homemade adapter is working but no love from DCS yet.

1) Using a two section test track, and a simple loop. (cleaned rails)

2) Z-1000 to TIU fixed in #1 via adapter.

3) TIU fixed out #1 to MTH lock-on.

4) Reading 17.75 volts on the track. 

5) Engine makes a slight buzz, but no start up sounds, it's getting the watchdog signal?

6) TIU LED flashes once, remote says TIU one is found.

7) Cleaned the engine rollers, left on live track 2 hours to charge batteries.

8) Reset the TIU and the Remote.

9) Opened the TIU, checked and reseated the four fuses.

10) Isolated the center rail between two sections of track, confirmed with meter.

I also have TIU accessory power supply, so I tried that with input/output #2 as well.

Still getting only "no engine to add!"

Running out of patience and things to try. 

I can upgrade to from v3.0 to v4.x. but this setup was working when I put it into storage 3 years ago.

Well thanks for letting me vent.  I have to do something else before this drives me insane.

Is the engine possibly in your inactive list? That's the only other thing I can think of. If it is you may have to delete it then try to re-add, but I'm not sure there? I have 4.20 and on my temp layout I got some engines in the inactive list and could not get them back to active, but don't remember what I did to fix them. Barry recommends something for the inactive situation, but I can't remember that one either.

You can just hope Barry comes back by and offers some more suggestions for you.

I assume that the loco is listed somewhere on the remote.  Try deleting the loco and then re-adding it. 

If a battery has been sitting 3 years without a charge, it may no longer hold a charge or have adequate capacity.  You didn't mention the loco model number or whether it's a 3-volt [has square charging port] or 5-volt [has a round port or none at all] model. 

There is no reason to go to a lithium battery.  NiCads and NiMH's are fine and unquestionably compatible.

I would not upgrade until this issue is resolved..

I have been working with four different PS2 locomotives, two are 3v and one is 9v (new battery), and I have not taken the shell off the fourth one.

When I started, these and some TMCC engines were still listed in the memory of the system, but after resetting both the TIU and the remote, there are no locomotives listed.

I got my Z-4000 out of storage, but using it hasn't helped. 

I have also used the transformer method to reset two of the locomotives, didn't help.

30-4156-1E Christmas 4-6-0, about 4 years old.

30-1378-1 USRA 0-6-0 Steam Switcher, also 4 years old.

30-2602-1 GP-9 Diesel

PS2 Diesel McDonalds

I have a couple more PS2 locos in storage, but at this point I don't think it's the locomotives.  But how can I be sure? 

When I power the track down in conventional mode the sounds continue for 6-7 seconds, which I always understood to mean there was a charge in the batteries.

Well - thanks for all your suggestions.

Alan

Here's one more thing to check.  You can find the proper remote key sequence in Barry's book---see page 45 of 2nd Ed under "DCS Setup.  Check all 4 TIU channels to make sure that the DCS signal is turned on.

 The fact that all locos have the same issue indicates to me that the issue is TIU or remote related. 

Connect a 4-conductor telephone handset cable between the TIU's Remote Input port and the port at the base of the remote.

Then delete the engines from the remote and attempt to re-add them.

RJR - believe I did that, tells it to broadcast DCS on all four outputs.

Barry - a "handset" cable, we went all cellular years ago, haven't been able to find a "handset" cable around the house, wish I'd kept one of those...

But I did find my USB to serial adapter!

Well Radio Shack might have one.

Thank you - Alan

Alan,

Well Radio Shack might have one.

Radio Shack, OfficeMax, Office Depot, Staples...

Thanks everyone, but it might be time to "call it" for my DCS system. 

Purchased the handset cable, found my USB to serial and an audio cable. Successfully upgraded TIU and Remote from v3.0 to v4.3.  Upgrade went smoothly but still no love, just "no engine to add!".

Additional troubleshooting steps include opening the TIU and Remote to re-seat the RF boards, and switching to using the handset cable.  The only thing left is trying different track, I have been using MTH RealTrax, three years ago I was using FasTrack.

It's one those situations where I feel there must be one simple little thing I've overlooked, and if I just keep on trying it will start working again... 

Alan

Kalunaboy, I think your last paragraph is probably correct.  Short of battery issues, I can't see why storage of DCS would cause it to degrade, unless subject to extreme moisture.

Alan,

   As much as I like FasTrack switching track is probably not your problem, as long as you are connected to the track properly all the different track types work just fine.

You might want to test your engines with a different TIU, this almost sounds like

your engines have dead batteries in them, if you have a friend who runs DCS in your area, try adding your engines to his TIU and see what happens, if you have a train store with a layout close by, ask them to test your DCS engines for you. 

Something further to check, if you have one of the original TIU's, with no fuse, your TIU might have been damaged in some manner, not many of these in use any more however. 

PCRR/Dave

I would think the remote and TIU taking the upgrades would indicate they were functioning correctly? I have never done an upgrade though. Maybe batteries as PCRR/Dave and RJR suggested? (I haven't had that problem either.) More from Barry?

Only other thing I can think of is put on some Taj Mahal or Albert King catching the KATY or the mule, maybe that will help. If no help to the DCS, it may help your frustrations a bit.  

So if I understand it, you have 4 PS2 engines that work in conventional and with apparently good batteries as evidenced by successful shutdown sounds on removal of power.  But in command even with only a couple feet of test-track, the TIU cannot communicate with them other than the watchdog on initial powerup which keeps them silent (slight buzz).  You do hear the faint relay double-click in the PS2 engines when power is applied?

I'm sure this is not your problem but another thread exhibiting similar symptoms was solved by swapping the polarity of the TIU output to the track.  That is, somehow the wires (red to center rail, black to outer rail) got swapped.  The watchdog did it's silencing job in either polarity but regular DCS communications did not work with the reversed polarity.  I'd say that qualified as "one simple little thing"

Based on your location you probably have the only TIU for miles around but I too vote for trying a different TIU.

What were the problems with DCS 3.0?

If I remember correctly, one of the releases had severe problems finding engines?

Glancing thru these posts, I didn't notice any mention of him confirming use of a correct bulb on the test track either? ( is the lock-on lit? Does it still have the original bulb?)

Have not tried swapping polarity, even though it's AC I am concerned it would cause some damage.  My testing has been all done with red (+) from a MTH transformer to center rail so far. 

Humidity and salt air is a problem, but all of the DCS gear was wrapped for storage in tissue paper, and then in plastic wrap, and then in zip lock bags.  Everything was then stored indoors.

As far as light bulbs I am using a MTH lock-on, which has a power indicator on it.  Does that count?  I tried two, one being a brand new one I just received with an order of MTH RealTrax for my planned layout.

I packed up some of the engines and the Z-4000 this morning because my test track is in the dining room, but I'll give swapping the polarity a shot later today.

That the version upgrade went so smoothly makes me think everything is good with the DCS gear too.  I am planning to take everything down and start over before clearing out of the dining room.  I need to focus on my layout room and if I need a new DCS well then I will have to adjust the budget.

Yup some Taj Mahal will help!

Alan

If it's red from an MTH Z4000 transformer to a red input on TIU, and red TIU output is connected to center, I wouldn't change it. On a 2-section test track, a bulb shouldn't be necessary.

When running conventionally, do you have full speed and direction control?

 I'm coming in here late and I'm just confused how this isn't fixed yet.

I really have had some issues with my system over the years, yet it has always worked. I really feel that something easy is being overlooked.

I missed the fact that you had upgraded!

 I have had an issue with older DCS releases where I needed a bulb on a test track to load an engine. It may have worked without, but in that instance it loaded when a bulb was added. I used a bulb from then on, with that older TIU.

 Some of these problems I've run thru. I just don't document them for future use because of newer DCS releases that I've gone to.

How about using alligator clips from the output of the tiu directly to an engine.

I just want to eliminate the track from the equation.

When I encounter these problems, I try and remove everything possible.

 I'm not trying to step on any poster's ideas, just trying to get this resolved.

Going to the most basic set-up, should help eliminate problems.

Otherwise, I think that the equipment is going to need some expert going over!!

Wish you lived closer as I'd do it for the learning curve.

In G scale when the polarity to the engine is incorrect, you get a double or triple click at power up. I'm not sure if that would happen here??

 I had a problem exactly like this years ago, I had the polarity reversed by accident on my O scale when I reconnected it after upgrading the system. I flopped a banana plug and didn't notice it. Nothing worked.

Joe, do you mean G-scale with DC track power?  In that case, for PS2, you would get the normal double relay click on initial power.  If the applied DC voltage is negative, then you'd get a 3rd relay click as the engine enters reverse since there's no "neutral" in DC operation like you have in AC operation.

I don't think Alan's issue is polarity since he's using lock-ons and presumably can visually verify the TIU-to-lockon wiring is red-to-red, black-to-black.  However, as you confirm, if the wiring is swapped the system will exhibit his symptoms (PS2 engines powerup with double-relay-click but silent in command mode but no subsequent DCS control).

But as it only takes 1 minute to perform the experiment, I think it's worth the time.  That is, go ahead and swap the wiring between the TIU and the lockon (NOT the wiring from transformer to TIU).  Reversing polarity of the track voltage will not harm the engine.

I experienced the 'engine not found' for 4 of my PS2 engines last night here on my bench track. Couldn't figure it out and was about to post here but noticed that I had the track polarity reversed. Viola' - back to normal.  Hope your issue get resolved soon!

I have also done this once. I was just not paying attention when I plugged things back in. The older I get the easier it is to do things like this (at least that's what I'm blaming it on anyway).

Reversed the polarity, Red (+) to outer rail, no difference. 

For now at least this DCS is done for, going to pack it up and wait for a good price on a new set.  Might check into having this one repaired, but being out of warranty that is not likely to be money spent well.

Thanks again to everyone for sharing their suggestions and experiences.

Alan

Sometimes it takes extreme measures to make DCS work 

'Until, from the midst of this darkness, a sudden light broke in upon me -- a light so brilliant and

wondrous, and yet so simple!'

Change the poles from plus to minus and from minus to plus!'

No, no, no.....  Wait........  That's how to bestow animation upon lifeless matter.  Well, then again....it could work!

Given the price of a new system, the price of postage to ship the units to someone likke GGG or GRJ for a check would be a worthwhile investment.  My original issue TIUs are still going strong.  TIUs are generally repairable.

If these parts are repairable that would be great.  Many electronic items I have owned don't seem to be repairable because parts are unavailable.

I was going to contact MTH about a repair.  It would be ideal if I could send it out to a shop for testing, receive an estimate from the same shop, and if cost effective have it repaired.

I see that GGG and GRJ are members, is it appropriate to contact them? 

Alan

Yes  they have both helped me before, use their email address

Clem k

Alan,

   Definitely contact them and have them repair your DCS, and have the TIU upgraded with the latest changes, as they repair it. Probably cost you a lot less than a new DCS.

PCRR/Dave

Definitely worth a try, contact them from their email in their profiles. I'm pretty sure TIU's and Remotes are quite repairable as RJR says.

Thanks!

I have made contact and considering sending in for estimate and repair. 

DCS sets are in short supply right now at the online resellers I purchase from, and auction  sellers are asking close to new prices for used sets.

Alan