Recieving your trains in less than perfect condition

Not trying to be dis respectful but you must not spend much time on here.This subject is discussed on a regular basis here.The problem is widespread.I know,it is very frustrating.I now spend most of my money on the secondary market and have been much happier with it.Nick

Your right im a newbie on here and figured the subject is often covered. But just tonight opened my new Lionel H16-44 and all looked well until the paint flaked off the handrails! At that moment submitted to it looking more prototypical!

Ironically, the used Conventional Classics 2056 I picked up at a train show for $150 is perfect. Go figure. 

 The 2056 from my conventional classic set had the front pilot and trailing truck fall off while being run.

You know, it "can be done". An example of excellent packaging are my Lionmaster and JLC N&W locomotives from Lionel. 3rd Rail does a great job with their packing materials as well. Even if packaging cost $20 per locomotive, it would be money well spent when considering warranty issues and damage to the company reputation.

Gilly

Last March I put my conventional U.P. alco on the track for the first run and it went about 8inches before the motor started smoking! Just not putting in the effort or getting sloppy in production. I don't mind paying for trains but give me quality in return. 

I've had a lot of trains shipped to me through UPS, and have been fortunate in that none have ever had any shipping damage.

Some of the brass engines have needed a little tweaking, but that's expected.  None have had any significant problems.  I have never found a manufacturing defect.

Am I lucky or typical?

Its an epidemic.

Gentlemen,

   On the other hand I received my new Lionel Legacy Shay from Patrick's Trains in WVa just before Christmas, delivered right to my front door in absolutely perfect shape by UPS.  If all my new Lionel trains were built, packaged and delivered as this one was, it would be 1959 Lionel Quality all over again.  It can be done!

PCRR/Dave

My wife's Christmas present to me this year was perfectly built and arrived in absolutely perfect shape, even the packaging box was delivered unmarked by UPS.

I have had 3 new Lionel locos delivered to me by FedEx since Christmas.

Each one was in perfect shape with no damage and worked out of the box.

However, I had to send one in to Lionel for repair; the smoke unit barely worked.

BUT, considering that the units are made in China (not here, not Japan, not Taiwan), I have set my expectations accordingly.

I am glad Lionel has a service center in North Carolina; at least, you can have the unit repaired.  Yes, you have to pay postage but that is the price of the game.

RickM46

I ordered a JLC GG1 back in 2007 when it first came out. Ups left it at my frt. door, the box was Crushed to about 4" high totally destroying the locomotive. There was no way even to take a picture. 

Charlie Ro took it back and sent me another one By Fedex Now that is customer service. 

Interesting you should pick the Shay as the shining example.

When these were first released several years ago, there was an epidemic of them being wrapped in the tissue paper before the paint was dry.  This was across many from the first build(perhaps not all).  The paper was literally stuck to the side frame of the truck (like it was glued there with the wet paint) on mine.  (there were many other scuffs/marks as well on the cab and body, but that was the most obnoxious example)

Lionel made an attempt to remedy this, but the result was still not acceptable to me, so that is why I do not have a West Side Lumber example.  I later bought a Pickering when they were blown out, knowing there may be some small issues related to this (but I went in knowing this, and it was probably nearly $200 less money than my original pre-ordered unit)

-Dave

I haven't had any such problems in over 80 new loco purchases over the last six or seven years.  Lionel, MTH, RMT, 3rd Rail.  

Rick

do you send these complaints to Lionel and MTH???

most manufacturers want to know, they have enquiring minds!!

Lee that is amazing because I am only on my 2nd purchase and I had to exchange the Legacy Engine and soon one of the cars.  My problems were not shipping as I used my LHS (60 miles each way) but poor product quality and/or assembly. 

I have been following the forum for a while and I guess I hadn't picked up on the quality issues.  I can't believe if this is so widespread these companies can stay in business.   I'm very disappointed. 

Chris

I had the same thing happen to my cc 2056.  I have had a bunch of stuff bought 'new' that comes damaged. I would guess most of this happens at the factory & not due to shipping. I now spend most of money on the secondary market. 

So you keep on buying these defective pieces?  That is the definition of INSANITY...doing the same behavior expecting different results.

SO….in fact..each one was "NOT" in perfect shape correct?Prosecution rests.Nick Originally Posted by RickM46:

I have had 3 new Lionel locos delivered to me by FedEx since Christmas.

Each one was in perfect shape with no damage and worked out of the box.

However, I had to send one in to Lionel for repair; the smoke unit barely worked.

BUT, considering that the units are made in China (not here, not Japan, not Taiwan), I have set my expectations accordingly.

I am glad Lionel has a service center in North Carolina; at least, you can have the unit repaired.  Yes, you have to pay postage but that is the price of the game.

RickM46

 

Prosecution!!!??

Yes you are right, not a perfect score; 2 out of 3 locos perfect.  The third - every function worked except the smoke unit.  Considering they came from China - I'm not surprised and put up with it.

Saw a documentary some years ago about Chinese factories.  At that time, corporate buyers were not allowed in the plants; max units outputted was the mantra from what we would call slave labor - quality was, well was.

RickM46

You shouldn't put up with lower quality standards regardless of where it was made.  Lionel and the others have ultimate accountability in delivering a quality product (these are still relatively expensive trains);  the consumer tolerating anything less sends the wrong message, IMHO.

Yes, we should not tolerate low quality.

However, how much control do Lionel Execs have over the Chinese production process??  Yes, they have obligations to their customers; but, as with any modern Investment group that own a business, the only thing that counts is profit and that annual bonus.  Bigger profits from slave labor - this isn't new.  So, now, if you want Lionels, you are captive to their hubris.  Think of GM, Ford, etc before Japan got into the market - no competition for quality.  Finally, oriental competition brought about changes.  So, who is going to compete with China and their slave labor??

My 2 cents.

RickM46

You are right john! all of the trains that are defective are from the companies not due from shipping. Williams is about the only company that i never really had this problem. I keep buying hoping that I receive what i'm paying for . Case in point, received my Lionel H16-44 and all looked great until the paint flaked off the .metal handrails. They should think about priming first. The Jersey central alcos I bought before this engine the paint was already flaked off the pilots when taken out of the box. Was wondering if Lionel & MTH sell seconds to stores

If it is not something minor such as a slightly bent handrail, I send it back. Not paying for junk. Thankfully, I'm able to have a few great LHS around so I can inspect each item prior to purchase. The few times I've received bad merchandise from online ordering, it goes right back for refund or exchange. 

Amen.

Richie

Best Lionel produced in my opinion was the Kuhn era. I really miss K-Line seems to me they were the best!!! R.I.P

I would counter that you are only captive to their hubris if you chose to be.  That in essence is being part of the problem.   How much control Lionel or any other company's execs have over overseas manufacturing processes including QA is their problem, not the consumers.

Vote with your wallet, send them the message.  Post your quality experiences as you've done (tastefully), vote with your wallet and don't purchase any more new products from those that you are having QC problems with and let them know you won't until they improve.  Shop around; buy from a competitor that may delivers better quality and stick with them until the other turns things around.

I am the same way, if not right out of the box it is returned for refund not repair, this applies to anything I buy new.

Art

I know what you mean John, but my problem is that I'm a Long Island guy and Lionel & MTH are about the only ones who produce for this road. So when I buy I keep my fingers crossed hoping for the best. I am considering switching to S-qauge using American models as my supplier. They are AMERICAN made and seem to be of quality stuff. I'll keep my best and sell the rest

I've only had to return one new item, so I guess I'm lucky in the big picture.  However, it was a 'big ticket' item.

A phone call, followed by an e-mail, will help to quickly resolve an issue. Well photographed images of the problem, in a concise, polite, and well described manner are easy to do in an e-mail.  While I had them on the phone, I told the representative, "I'm sending you photos of the issue now, titled with my last name and the product ID number"

He found the message in seconds because he now knows what to search for.

Above all, no matter how frustrated you get, remain polite and professional.  If you're an *** right off the bat...well, you're going nowhere fast.  Give'em a chance to correct the issue.

Hello rick king.............

I am not here to ruin your day here in this fine forums but I have a set of Lionel F-3 ABA #18117, this engine had 2 BEND armatures and it was new in the box!!  I had to replace both armatures at 50 dollars for the pair.  This set was made in 1993, Richard Kuhn era.  I also have a #18303 Amtrak GG1 set, this set was made in 1989 so again the Richard Kuhn era. The problem with the GG1 is the body casting is warped on one side, the paint job finishing is very poor as it needs a good quality gloss clear coat to at least have the shine sheen like the passengers cars it comes with.  Some of the cars have bend wheel sets.  Those quality problems can be fixed at home and both of those sets are made in the U.S.A !!!  I lost respect for Mr. Kuhn for not doing a better job in controlling quality when assembling the back then expensive trains.  Mr. Kuhn should pay me back for the parts needed to fix those 2 sets I have.  Its a good thing I have the skills needed to make the repairs. I almost became a Lionel service station back in 1989 too when my parents were alive.

Tiffany

WOW!!! Lot of issues on my part dealing with trains! LOL   I guess my main problem is dealing with mail order and not seeing the item before hand. Only really started having this problem in the last 2-3 years

My experience is that Lionel quality out of the box was fine during the MPC era and the Kuhn era.  In fact, even during the LLC era, it was very good into the early 2000s-  I have early TMCC equipment with hundreds of hours on it that runs fine.  My recent experiences with Lionel, starting in maybe or 2007 or so, is where the quality is all over the map. 

My MTH equipment has been fine, but I have a lot less of it.  I also think the new drawbars are delicate and potentially problematic.

Williams during the pre-WBB era was pretty bulletproof.  Recent WBB is not so great -- two of the operating cars I have purchased recently had to go back, and an Atlantic was also defective, twice.  Not a great track record either and the service was poor. 

As I have mentioned in another thread, I have stopped buying locomotives until I get a sense that quality control is a more significant priority for the manufacturers.  I think the number of Lionel quality control gaffes here is really unfortunate but I am under no illusions that MTH or WBB are perfect either. 

One positive is that Lionel and MTH service are both excellent in my experience.  And the firms are reputable in that they will stand behind the product -- that means a lot to me.  That integrity and the resources we have here on the forum (I think GRJ and GGG are probably the best Lionel TMCC/Legacy and MTH techs respectively out there, period end of story).  So at least if you have an issue, it can be resolved.

Are you ordering these items from the same dealer?

Reason I ask it that it's possible that the dealer in question may be less than reputable and instead of mailing you brand-new, pristine items is sending you second-hand items (like shelf displays or a returns) or arranged to have them drop-shipped from somewhere else who might be less than reputable.

Sometimes paint rubs off or parts fall off or work loose during shipping (can either be the fault of the importer not using properly designed packaging protection or the seller not packaging them properly from their store using adequate outer protection, etc.) or even from excessive, abusive handling from the shipper (forklift football anyone?).

Point being, sometimes perceived QA problems can originate from the factory, others from shipping (not packaged properly or from excessive handling causing damage), and others can be due to dealing with less than honorable sellers.

I mostly get my trains from 3 big stores here in the east. My MTH rs3 didn't even have the Styrofoam padding between the body and handrails. Lionel did have them. Just getting careless I think.

Are you sure these are brand-new, mint in box, never opened?

I've never had brand new in box diesel engines from Lionel or MTH that came without the Styrofoam inserts between the railings.

First and so far only Williams engine I bought had the rear set of wheels fall off withing 10 minutes of running it.

Only had one bad out of the box Legacy engine in the last 10 years, so I am OK

John,

I agree with you 100%. Something does not sound right at all. It's time for OP to start questioning the dealer's priorities.

God Bless,

"Pappy"

John, sometimes the box flap seems as if  the box flap has been worked a few times yet the piece seems to be wrapped tight. I always call to see if an item is in stock and how many they have. If they say only one in stock after the item may have been out on the market and a hot item I usually steer clear unless I really want it then I take a risk. But a lot of times it is an item that comes out and they plenty in stock. The deal with my MTH rs3. No padding between handrails and body. Think that's the first time that has happened to ne