Reverse Unit for Bowser Trolley - STOPPED WORKING

Howdy!

using a diode bridge you can convert your AC motor in DC without problem, then connect the reverse unit as the factory recommend.

here is how to connect a diode bridge on an AC motor.

Andre.

Thanks Andre.
Since I don't have any diodes at the moment could you suggest a size and source?

Radio shack!

bridge, KBPC804 I am using on few Lionel PW engines.

Andre.

Just checked the Radio Shack site and I think they changed the part numbers...No results.

I've used a bridge to put a DC motor on AC track. I'm guessing it works the other way too. ???

Also, the Bowser motor is supposed to work on AC or DC, so maybe I don't need a bridge. Gotta see if I can find a DC transformer to test with.

Bert

Bert!

here is the diode bridge.

http://www.radioshack.com/prod...sp?productId=2062583

those motors work on AC and DC, using a diode bridge you just need to change the polarity on the rails to reverse the motor. without the bridge will work just in one direction if I remember well.

Andre.

 

Thanks for the link.
So then with the diode bridge I can use the reversing unit to act like changing the polarity of the rails...

The auto reverse unit I have does not reverse polarity, it turns the track power on and off to trigger a reverse unit.

Bert

Correct! the diode bridge make the AC motor behave like DC motor, so changing the rail polarity the motor will work forward or back.

Andre.

I'll suggest a Dallee eletronic reverse unit.

The Dallee unit is a good suggestion. However, it is $45 versus $18 for Lionel e-unit plus diode bridge. Plus Dalle unit is rated to 4 amps and Lionel unit to 5 amps.

J White, you are correct on the concern for the high current, as you are now shunt-wiring a series wound motor.

 

To use the 103 type electronic reverse board, the DC leads of the bridge rectifier are connected to the field windings, polarity unimportant.  This will cause the field to always be polarized the same way regardless of the DC voltage applied to the AC leads(which the 103 will be doing for you).

 

The two motor leads off of the 103 will be wired to one brush, either one, and one AC lead of the rectifier(again - either one).  The last connection is from the remaining AC rectifier lead to the other brush.

 

Wire the 103 input leads to the center rail collector(s) and chassis ground in the usual manner.

 

The motor is now series wired as designed, with a constant polarity DC current on the field, and a switching DC current to the brushes courtesy of the 103(which has a AC input and a DC output). 

 

The diagram posted by AG is correct but lacks the labeling on the rectifier and has hard labels for the (+) & (-), which are the motor leads from the 103 and can be (+) or (-), and should be labeled "DC In". 

Sorry about.

Red wires are AC contact legs

Black wires are DC (+/-) legs.

Andre.

Great info guys. Thanks!

Will get the parts and let you know how it goes.

Bert

It looks like you have it backwards.

 

Your red wires are DC, black legs AC.

 

Pictures worth a thousand words, so I open the engine is running using the bridge.

here is

Diode + _______field

Diode - ________ Field

Diode AC ________ pick up roller

diode  AC __________ carbon brush

          Carbon brush (2) ground

the picture is not clear but I open the engine just to be sure now...=-)

run like silk using DC

Andre.

TEST RESULTS

It worked fine then didn't...

UPDATE: Now the reverse unit is working intermittently. As I cycle the power on/off the unit goes between forward and neutral about %90 of the time. Randomly it goes into reverse. ???

The bridge rectifier and reverse board were hooked up as per Rob's description. Trolley worked fine going back and forth. Forward-Neutral-Reverse. This changed to the trolley only going forward then neutral. ??? Cycling the power on/off makes the trolley go forward, not move, then forward again.

Could the #103 reverse unit be fried?
Would a short cause this?

I have not done an amp test on the motor. Will try to do that now. Maybe it jumped the 5 amp mark.

Did get another #103 unit so I could try to diagnose by parts replacement...

Thanks for any tips.

Bert

Mine has an old-fashioned electromechanical E unit in it and it works fine. The old E units were designed to work with open-frame motors. 

Now it works.
I've been randomly testing the trolley all day and now it seems to work fine.
Forward-Neutral-Reverese
Don't know what the issue was that made it act weird earlier...Probably a short of some kind.

Now I need to run the motor more in reverse to break it in so it runs about the same speed in each direction.

Thanks to all for the help!

Bert

Great news!

thanks for the update!!

AG.

UPDATE

The reverse unit stopped working. Trolley motor does not run at all.

First the trolley started running slow in reverse...Maybe an issue with the open frame motor not broken in well in reverse.

Then it ran in forward and neutral only. That is, forward then on/off four times back to forward.

Now no action at all. On/off over and over with no results.

My guess is the #103 reverse unit has been killed. Too many amps?

Maybe I should try an older type mechanical reverse unit. Or maybe a small modern motorized unit like an Industrial Rail handcar... I'm assuming the handcar motor could be hooked up to a #103 E-unit.

This back and forth trolley is becoming quite a project.

Bert

I'm curious, do you remember what electromechanical E-unit you used?

I don't see any visible damage to the #103 reverse unit. Still, I'm guessing it is fried.

Tested my backup #103 unit on an Industrial Rail handcar motor and that works, so I think that will be the power unit for my trolley project. Trying to power a 1920's era tin trolley. Wanted the look of an older style open frame motor...