Right Of Way / Ajin Brass Alco PA/PB/PA - Opinions?

ROW made ABA PA"S in 1991. UP, SP, SF,D&H.  Also produced additional I think, NYC, Pennsy, Cotton Belt, D&RG & EL.

Never bought them but I believe they were highly rated engines. Williams made many Brass engines.  Weaver also contributed to the Brass engine period.

It was only when Mikes Train House got rolling that the shift in large steam engines moved to diecast.  The Challenger at the time was the largest diecast engine by a main line producer.  The Dash 8 led the way for diesel production that we became accustom to.

I think forum member C Sam had posted pics of these engines once

@EMD posted:

I think forum member C Sam had posted pics of these engines once

Right of Way Industries | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

I love my PRR version. May be analog with no ALCo smoke but shes still a beauty!

Yes, I had a set of the handsome and unique D&H PA's as pictured above by Engineer Joe (thanks Joe) and they were way ahead of their time with a high level of detail, lights in several places not found on the other manufacturers and had two Pittmans (I think) in the powered unit. No flywheels but I found that it was pretty easy to adapt my handling of the throttle and bring them to a smooth stop by paying attention. Sound was basic but again, good for the day. What was unique about them was the beautiful 'burnished' finish to the cab sides to simulate stainless steel used on the Santa Fe and the D&H. These sold for about $1400 back then which was a shocker in O gauge. If you added ERR and TMCC or MTH PS3 and some smoke units you would have a terrific locomotive for today.

I’ve had 2 PA ABA sets, NYC & D&H. Beautiful models & smooth runners. They can generally be purchased in the $400-600 range.

Rich

Thank you to all that have responded!

Checked out the link, seems like these might be a good purchase,  Right of Way will now be on my radar.

C.Sam and the link mention low speed ability (even without flywheels) which is important to me.  I came into this from HO, not traditional 3R so like running trains slow, not fast.

The D&H units are beautiful.  The PRR units I'm looking at online have the Trainphone antennas.

Would you guys rate these equal to MTH Premier (seems used price is in about the same range)?

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

I love my PRR version. May be analog with no ALCo smoke but shes still a beauty!

I am planning on attending Trainstock this weekend, so if you are thinking of bringing something to run, would love to see these in action!

Probably would choose the MTH Premiere over the ROW because of DCS and superior sounds, smoke, etc. Apples & Oranges

@MainLine Steam posted:

Thank you to all that have responded!

Checked out the link, seems like these might be a good purchase,  Right of Way will now be on my radar.

C.Sam and the link mention low speed ability (even without flywheels) which is important to me.  I came into this from HO, not traditional 3R so like running trains slow, not fast.

The D&H units are beautiful.  The PRR units I'm looking at online have the Trainphone antennas.

Would you guys rate these equal to MTH Premier (seems used price is in about the same range)?

I finished this ROW PA project earlier this year. I added ERR Cruise Commander; I have not added sound (yet). I painted it and frame-mounted the pilot with a scale coupler. The companion Wms dummy FA has an O-gauge coupler and houses the antenna (the ROW is all brass). I wanted this pair as they are prototypical for a rare GM&O paint scheme - solid red.

The gearing is excellent and it will has a nice slow speed. As can be common with brass locos, especially diesel and other box cabs, the engine is noisy compared to modern locos. I do not miss the flywheels; runs well.

The etched brass body shells cannot match the depth of detailing on a plastic - or die-cast - model, but I like them anyway. The feel of it is nice.

They came in NYC, UP, DH, PRR, so far as I know. This set one was UP.

ERR board mounted. The wiring is different from most modern 3RO units - a lot of it is actually attached to the body interior, and uses "bus bars" for motor power. I scrapped the ROW lighting wiring.

With frame-mounted pilot - but without the scale coupler mounted yet - I need to get a shot of the finished front end, without the "hole" where the coup[ler should be.

C.Sam thanks for the input.  I have been looking for PA's and maybe should have just posed the question, if buying PA's what brand you you recommend, who knows maybe will start another thread.  On the other hand really wanted to learn about these Right of Way units, still exploring the world of 3R Scale.

D500 - Nice work!  Thanks for sharing.  Appreciate the picture of the chassis.  Actually surprised that no weight was included to aid traction.  Wondering how you attached Pilots to the frame?

Bill Benson of ROW Trains offered these PA Alco ABA sets in the late 1980's. They were the first three rail o gauge engines to offer American made Pittman motors. However, the height of the motors precluded the addition of flywheels to the motors. That is why he introduced his transformer to be able to gradually speed up and slow down the engines. They were hard to run with a Lionel ZW which was the standard of the day. The Santa Fe and the Delaware and Hudson were plated and beautiful. The PRR had the roof antennas so they stood out. The NYC, Cottonbelt and the SP were ok. The interior wiring was primitive and the sound was from a small company in Chicago named OTT engineering. For the times it was ok. The operability of an MTH set of  PA Alcos is in my opinion far superior. The original cost of the Alcos was $1,400.00. And when they were nearly sold out Benson would raise the prices on the remaining units. He was always at York in the Yellow Hall under the grandstand and he often had a layout in the adjacent Gold Hall. Because of people clamoring for the Pittman motors both MTH and Lionel were forced to use them in their best steam engines.

I've never seen one of these in person with the shell off.  Do the Pittman motors say 12V or 24V on the label?  Also, are the gears back-drivable by any chance?  In other words... if you try to turn the wheels with a bit of force by using your fingers, does the motor seem to turn?  Great topic!

@MainLine Steam posted:

D500 - Nice work!  Thanks for sharing.  Appreciate the picture of the chassis.  Actually surprised that no weight was included to aid traction.  Wondering how you attached Pilots to the frame?

There is a large lead weight that nestles around the rear motor. Very heavy. I removed it to do the project, then re-installed it. The frame is  aluminum, not steel, and rather soft. The loco actually depends on the brass shell for much torsional rigidity - it's unibody construction, of sorts. This is not Lionel/MTH/Williams world.

The pilot and frame were drilled/tapped to accept 2-56, as I recall, screws. This is the first iteration, as I attempted to rtain the O-gauge coupler. Not enough swing even on 0-72 to work, without a really ugly wide gap. So I went scale and closed up the hole. Our 3RO steamers do this all the time.

The pilot is a bit shallow (from the swinging-pilot design) and did not like my ideas on "dropping" it - none looked right. If I ever get a 2-rail proper PA pilot, I'll mount it.

@D500 posted:

There is a large lead weight that nestles around the rear motor. Very heavy. I removed it to do the project, then re-installed it. The frame is  aluminum, not steel, and rather soft. The loco actually depends on the brass shell for much torsional rigidity - it's unibody construction, of sorts. This is not Lionel/MTH/Williams world.

The pilot and frame were drilled/tapped to accept 2-56, as I recall, screws. This is the first iteration, as I attempted to rtain the O-gauge coupler. Not enough swing even on 0-72 to work, without a really ugly wide gap. So I went scale and closed up the hole. Our 3RO steamers do this all the time.

The pilot is a bit shallow (from the swinging-pilot design) and did not like my ideas on "dropping" it - none looked right. If I ever get a 2-rail proper PA pilot, I'll mount it.

Thank you very much for the picture and the explanation.  If you are not going to using the 3R coupler, the scale coupler really does improve the look.  Too bad the GMO didn't use clamshell covers on their passenger loco pilots, or you could of filled the hole that way.  Starting with a Union Pacific shell you probably had to add the over cab number board.  Again Nice Work!

@triplex posted:

Bill Benson of ROW Trains offered these PA Alco ABA sets in the late 1980's. They were the first three rail o gauge engines to offer American made Pittman motors. However, the height of the motors precluded the addition of flywheels to the motors. That is why he introduced his transformer to be able to gradually speed up and slow down the engines. They were hard to run with a Lionel ZW which was the standard of the day. The Santa Fe and the Delaware and Hudson were plated and beautiful. The PRR had the roof antennas so they stood out. The NYC, Cottonbelt and the SP were ok. The interior wiring was primitive and the sound was from a small company in Chicago named OTT engineering. For the times it was ok. The operability of an MTH set of  PA Alcos is in my opinion far superior. The original cost of the Alcos was $1,400.00. And when they were nearly sold out Benson would raise the prices on the remaining units. He was always at York in the Yellow Hall under the grandstand and he often had a layout in the adjacent Gold Hall. Because of people clamoring for the Pittman motors both MTH and Lionel were forced to use them in their best steam engines.

Thanks for tying the history together for me.  As I mentioned, am pretty new to 3R, the history is really interesting as I was focused on HO during that time.  Although seeing K-Line passenger cars in a few Hobby shops 20 years ago is what got me thinking.... SOMEDAY....

I am surprised how low my resistance is to buying K-Line Passenger Cars, I've acquired quite a few.

K-Line probably did inspire many of us Jim. I was new to the hobby and had a only a year or so earlier opened a retail hobby shop when the original sets came out. They were SO much nicer than anything else generally available. We considered the original Madison cars from Lionel to be the epitome of a 3 rail passenger car at the time. WIlliams had produced a series of 15" copies of the Lionel cars and offered them in many road nomes never available before.  Although Walthers and perhaps some other small companies had marketed scale O gauge heavyweights before., K-Line changed the game forever.  I ordered a set of each from one of the businesses that had commissioned them initially with K-Line. They sold out relatively quickly too!

Now look at the choices available to us.

I have the Santa Fe set of these ROW brass locomotives.  As others have said, the finish is really nice.  The Santa Fe version seems very close to prototypical, although there is a notched hole in the roof of the lead unit for the e-unit lever, and that hole is in the others too, like an old postwar Lionel steam locomotive.

I have also seen the Cotton Belt version, which is not as prototypical, with the wrong number boards and wrong number of headlights for that prototype.

@MainLine Steam posted:

Starting with a Union Pacific shell you probably had to add the over cab number board. 

Yes, I had to make a cab number board, for this and the trailing Wms dummy. Not to beat a dead horse, but the UP also had the wrong number boards.

It started innocently enough; Wms FA on right, plastic dummy, for antenna:

Wms FA-1 dummy "tender"; these were the only 2 GM&O Alco cab units in solid red.

Thanks guys for the latest information.  When a start a post like this, through your contributions, it helps me to learn more and hopefully serve to help others looking for information.

In searching the internet I found this forum had lots helpfully information.  That is what ultimately caused me to join it.

@D500 posted:

Yes, I had to make a cab number board, for this and the trailing Wms dummy. Not to beat a dead horse, but the UP also had the wrong number boards.

It started innocently enough; Wms FA on right, plastic dummy, for antenna:

Wms FA-1 dummy "tender"; these were the only 2 GM&O Alco cab units in solid red.

Thanks again for the additional pictures.  Quite a dramatic change from before to after.