Rio Grande's 1940 Scenic Limited visits Tim's Toy Trains

sdmann posted:

In the picture of 3901 below I believe this is evidence of a Green Painted boiler. But as you can see, there are no overfire jets. So this is pre 1948.

Hi Scott! 

That's wonderful news that you are doing the 6th version with the Green Boiler jacket. I do believe this photo here demonstrates a green boiler jacket.. notice the cab compared to the tender and the sand domes, and compared to the pilot. It looks to me like the Green version... I'd have to dig further for more pics that might be better than this one... Historical Accuracy is more important to me than the Green boiler... Thanks Scott...  really appreciate everything you do for the Model Railroad Hobby... You ARE THE MAN!

Does anyone have any proof (Color photos) that this locomotive had a green boiler jacket after speed lettering in ‘38 and prior to the installation of over-fire jets in ‘48?  I doubt it.  B&W photos can suggest colors but ultimately do not prove anything.  

PRR 5841 posted:

Does anyone have any proof (Color photos) that this locomotive had a green boiler jacket after speed lettering in ‘38 and prior to the installation of over-fire jets in ‘48?  I doubt it.  B&W photos can suggest colors but ultimately do not prove anything.  

It's too bad we don't have any eye witnesses that can tell us one way or another and settle this. This reminds me of the debates of the original Movie Starship Enterprise "Engineering Green" color back in the early 2000s, fortunately, in spite of lack of color photos, the color was rediscovered and controversy, laid to  rest...

VintageClassics posted:

PRR 5841 posted:

Does anyone have any proof (Color photos) that this locomotive had a green boiler jacket after speed lettering in ‘38 and prior to the installation of over-fire jets in ‘48?  I doubt it.  B&W photos can suggest colors but ultimately do not prove anything.  

It's too bad we don't have any eye witnesses that can tell us one way or another and settle this. This reminds me of the debates of the original Movie Starship Enterprise "Engineering Green" color back in the early 2000s, fortunately, in spite of lack of color photos, the color was rediscovered and controversy, laid to  rest...

Given the expense of color film during the steam era, apparently very few were willing to use it hence the debate which will never be fully resolved one way or the other.  The only reasonable alternative is to know the L-105 story through research from which an intelligent decision can be made.

VintageClassics posted:

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Thanks Erik!

That's a Beautiful Shot of #3700 with the Green Boiler! So, as you have mentioned above. different engines retained their green boilers longer than others, such as the case of #3700 here which apparently has retained the green into at least the late 1940s... Very cool, and Interesting...

Erik... Do you happen to know which of the 3700 class retained the green boilers late into their lives, such as #3700 here? 

Here is D&RGW Class L-105 Standard Gauge Steam 4-6-6-4 #3710 rolling past prison south of Buena Vista. Colorado...

Note the color differentiation of the boiler vs the cab, and the sand and steam domes... Looks like a Green boiler...  

Overfire jets have been added, so this is post 1947... 

This last photo of 3710 is the most compelling piece of evidence I’ve seen to date. I respect what Scott is saying about it but the contrast between the sand domes and the boiler strongly suggest “Green” to me.   David, may I ask where you found this photo?

Chris

PRR 5841 posted:

VintageClassics posted:

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Thanks Erik!

That's a Beautiful Shot of #3700 with the Green Boiler! So, as you have mentioned above. different engines retained their green boilers longer than others, such as the case of #3700 here which apparently has retained the green into at least the late 1940s... Very cool, and Interesting...

Erik... Do you happen to know which of the 3700 class retained the green boilers late into their lives, such as #3700 here? 

Here is D&RGW Class L-105 Standard Gauge Steam 4-6-6-4 #3710 rolling past prison south of Buena Vista. Colorado...

Note the color differentiation of the boiler vs the cab, and the sand and steam domes... Looks like a Green boiler...  

Overfire jets have been added, so this is post 1947... 

This last photo of 3710 is the most compelling piece of evidence I’ve seen to date. I respect what Scott is saying about it but the contrast between the sand domes and the boiler strongly suggest “Green” to me.   David, may I ask where you found this photo?

Chris

Hi Chris,

I feel the same as you. Respectfully... When I see that photo, and you look at the Pilot Black, the Cab , Sand domes, even the coal in the tender, it looks black as BLACK... 

Then when you look at the boiler, it looks very much a greenish, lighter color... Lots of contrast with the greenish looking boiler... Also, note the overfire jets present, indicating post 1948... 

Would you believe I found this photo on Pinterest? Type in : Rio Grande 3710

David

Just to add to the conversation... Notice the same color as the boiler in the tank car a few cars back. Does that suggest the tank car is green too? Just sayin.

sdmann posted:

Just to add to the conversation... Notice the same color as the boiler in the tank car a few cars back. Does that suggest the tank car is green too? Just sayin.

Excellent point Scott... Assuming we are on the right track, it does indeed seem to suggest the tank car is green as well... 

sdmann posted:

Just to add to the conversation... Notice the same color as the boiler in the tank car a few cars back. Does that suggest the tank car is green too? Just sayin.

Scott,  

It’s possible that the tender side as well as the tank car are coated with the same type of road dust whereas the boiler being higher and protected by running boards wouldn’t have as much.  Therefore the shade of grey on the tender and tank car while similar to the boiler may be for two different reasons.  

BTW, Will the green on the L-105 be the same shade as that which was used on the L-131?

PRR 5841 posted:

sdmann posted:

Just to add to the conversation... Notice the same color as the boiler in the tank car a few cars back. Does that suggest the tank car is green too? Just sayin.

Scott,  

It’s possible that the tender side as well as the tank car are coated with the same type of road dust whereas the boiler being higher and protected by running boards wouldn’t have as much.  Therefore the shade of grey on the tender and tank car while similar to the boiler may be for two different reasons.  

 

Great points Chris... And if it were hypothetically green, the tank car, maybe its a sinclair classic green, who knows...

Good question about the shade of green. Will be interesting to see  what Scott has in mind...