RK Imperial Steamers vs Premier

I do not have any MTH Premier engines. I have plenty of Railkings and Imperials. I look at my Legacy engines as my top shelf engines.

I am very happy with the Imperial line and believe its the best overall value.  

The Premier engines are normally to large to run on my 031 curves.

To sum it up my favorite is Legacy then TMCC then Imperial then RailKing. 

I buy ONLY Railking pieces. Most of my steamers are Imperial. Most of my diesels are Railking Scale, which is literally older Premier items. I had one Premier diesel. I found the extra money spent for little improvement in detail for the Premier item to not be worth it. 

In the long run, RK/Imperial engines have the majority of features and details of Premier. Just some separately applied pipes and marker lights and such are usually the only major difference

IMO the biggest drawback of Railking locos is the inconsistant porportions across the entire line.

Yes I understand railking locos are not scale, but they are not all the same "semiscale" either. Some are larger, some smaller.

 Some locos, or parts of locos are overly compressed to a "that'll work," size.

I.E. the railking y6 has an overly short boiler that stops short of the front drive axle.

 The railking allegheny has an overly squished tender while the loco itself is a good representation of the massiveness of the prototype, in semi-scale form.

The railking atsf northern appears almost s scale, and does not relate well sizewise to the two locos I mentioned above.

 Lionmaster locos on the other hand are  all the same "semi scale", and they all relate well to each other, and locos and tenders look right together. In fact, I used to own a lionmaster hudson and it nearly dwarfed the railking atsf northern.

Railking locos are great locos, I'm not bashing. However,if overall porportions are important you may want to go with scale.

I disagree with SJC regarding detail, detail on a premier loco is far more than a few added pipes. I switched to scale for the detail and I'm glad I did, I didn't realize semi scale locos were missing so many  things like brake shoes for example, until I had a scale loco.

I'd take a few scale locos over numerous semi scale locos any day. The detail and layout presence of a scale loco is tough to beat.

Not to mention, I believe MTH's premier cab forward is supposedto be one of the best out there.

In steamers, generally scale vs. non-scale. There are exceptions ie; 0-6-0, etc.

But, I also like Imperial detail.

Well it is relatively straight forward in that Premier steam are all scale 1:48.  In the Rail King line at best only the 0-4-0's, 0-6-0's and 0-8-0's maybe scale (1:48).  The rest are about 2/3's to 3/4's of scale.  The "Imperial" designation only denotes an engine with more detail nothing to do with size/scale.

Here is a simple reason I prefer the Premier over the Imperial: Detail, Realism, scale, Prototypical....in the following 2 photos there is NO WAY that the Imperial mirrors the Premier when it comes to a model like the Southern Crescent Ps4.  Even the whistles are totally different with the Imperial; not even coming close to what a Southern Crescent sounds like.  I think the difference IMHO is much greater than some allude to. Regarding curves, I run plenty of fastrack 036 and have no problem running some of these Premiers.  As a matter of fact, I'll buy a Railking before I would an Imperial in that I don't think  differences are not much greater.  Bottom line:  I'll spend a few hundrred more and get the Premier over the Imperial any day...

I agree with you.  It can be a challenge at times to justify the difference in cost between the two series.  I have several recent (PS3) RK locos and a few recent PS3 Premiers, too.  The RK are, however, definitely not scale, and not quite as detailed.  You pay a lot for the difference, but it is noticeable. 

I get that there's more detail, but, does it really all matter when the locos are in motion.  The price difference between an Imperial Big Boy and a Premier Big Boy is much more than just a few hundred, the Premier is twice the price.  Plus, at near 30"s the Imperial version is still massive.

Of the main engines I want, the Imperial versions seem to look really good.  Right now for premier, I have two, an SD70ACE and a 1996 Big Blow.   The Big Blow will be going into JDS for a PS2 upgrade and some other things soon and is obviously not on par with the detail on the SD70ACE.  But other than 1.5"s, the Imperial SD70ACEs I see aren't much different than the Premiers.  

In regards to the sounds, can that not easily be upgraded with sound files?

Lee, I have to take your words in rather high regards on this subject knowing you have some nice high end locos too.

I am just thinking I would like to put more into the static details (scenery and such) than the engines.  I may still end up with some premier, but it will probably be PS1 versions I get for a great deal and convert to PS2/PS3.  If I can do this for the cost of an Imperial, or near to it, I can reason it out more to myself.

A possible disadvantage to buying Imperial Steamers is their is no real front coupler as you can see in the picture Erie Express posted. The front coupler is molded in on most Imperial engines where as the on Premier engines comes with a scale coupler and can be swapped out with O'Gauge Coupler for a latch up if you want to.  This summer I bought Southern 2-8-8-2 Imperial which is a nice engine, but I wish I had the option to put a coupler on the front to double head it. 

I agree with Erie Express if there is equivalent Premier engine, I would probably choose the Premier engine over the Imperial.  The only possible exception would be too wide of curve radius required on a Premier engine.  For me that would be greater than 0-54. 

I think a lot can come down to finances.  If you've got money to burn go with the Premier.  If you're looking for value and a very good looking model go with the Imperial.  If you feel like you need to justify the extra expense of the Premier you might have decent money, but not enough to burn.

Personally, I have both, and even though I make decent money I don't have enough to burn.  I'm never sorry with my Imperials and never wish that I bought a Premier instead.  I think my Premiers are outstanding, but I don't bother comparing them much except for an infrequent glance.  And, that's just to admire workmanship which I see in both.

Remember there's an old saying:  You don't get into a hobby in order to save money. 

Having said that, you also need to factor in what rolling stock you have.  If they're scale size, they may look out of place with RK Imperial & Lionmaster.

I guess you could just go with a plain Railking at that point and fore go both the Imperial or Premier for that matter. Especially since details don't mater that much to you. Why even bother with the more expensive Imperial?   I've got a couple of railkings that pretty much have all the physical features (whistle, PSA, train sounds, smoke) that their Imperial & Premier counterparts have....to me, I'd rather go high end rather than settle and go in the middle with an Imperial; if the price difference is that great at that point and it's a must have, I'll go for the cheaper Railking. Or just forget about it: to me, there just is no comparison when it comes to the Premiers.   To each his own.

I originally had several Railking steamers and let them all go in favor ot Premiere Steamers.

That's a very good point I had not thought about, my rolling stock is all scale (except for my son's daylight trains).  It gives me more to ponder.  I haven't found any hobby which is easy on the pocket book, and I have too many.

I definitely don't have money to burn, but have enough money.  It's just such a wild transition coming out of HO, these are not things one typically has to worry about in HO, it's more about fidelity and accuracy to the prototype.

 It's just such a wild transition coming out of HO, these are not things one typically has to worry about in HO, it's more about fidelity and accuracy to the prototype.

Texas SP

If fidelity and accuracy to the prototype are of great importance to you then I believe you have answered your own question.  Perhaps acquiring some of your desired locomotives used will help reduce the cost and it is unlikely that your railroad needs several articulateds right away.  Perhaps you can spread out your acquisitions over time and get the models that you will be most happy with in the long run.

I got back into O gauge with the MTH Railking Challenger in the 1990s.  After purchasing several more Railking steam locomotives I bought my first premier steam locomotive in 2000.  I haven't bought another Rail King locomotive since.  However, Railking steam locomotives remain a great value and some might fit in well with what you want to accomplish.  I regularly take part in operating sessions at a very large 3 rail O scale layout.  One locomotive that gets used at every operating session while scale brass and even Lionel Legacy steam locomotives decorate the round house tracks is a Railking 0-8-0.  It is scale sized, reasonably detailed and a great switcher.  Sit Topham Hatt would call it "a very useful engine." 

Well, I am by no means a stickler for fidelity or a rivet counter, I just like good looking models.  This is just been one of those things rolling over in my mind, and all the feedback has been helpful.  I have been holding off purchases as I have been on the fence.  Obviously I don't want a scale GS4 sitting next to an Imperial Big Boy, seeing as they are the same length, it would look strange.

Right now I am laying track so these are the things I am pondering/scheming/dreaming along the way.

TexasSP,

      I do not purchase any MTH engines for reasons that would not be appropriate for this thread but the only issue with Railking or Lionmaster steam or diesel engines is they are not scale. Now that I am done stating the obvious let me tell you my story. As a kid I loved Lionel's Alco FA diesels until I placed them against my neighbor's F3 diesels. All I could think was where was the rest of my engines as the FAs were quite a bit shorter than the F3s. When I got back into trains in my 40s I also purchased some semi scale engines which were fine until I purchased a Williams Scale F7s and a Mikado. All the luster of the semi scale engines was out the window. So I stopped buying all the semi scale stuff and since my home layouts curves were no larger than O42 I only bought 2 axcle diesels and no steam larger than a Mikado until I joined a club. Now I only buy all sized scale stuff. Good luck whatever way you go.

Here's a closeup of my RK Imperial 0-6-0:

It's really a nice engine, but things like piping are still molded on.

Here's a closeup of the tender, look at the chains on the trucks and the separate handgrabs:

That's what makes them so much better than a regular RailKing engine.

But when you look at a full-scale engine with separate piping and other details separately applied you'll grow to appreciate the added details and overall size.

I have a RK F3 and it's 2" (8 scale feet) too short and when you compare it to the prototype you start noticing what was left off to make it so short.

I can't afford these $1000+ engines, but I can afford the Imperial line.  Sometimes you can luck out and get a good deal on E-Bay or even here on the OGR For Sale forum.  I know everyone's tired of me talking about it but I recently got a Williams/Samhongsa scale brass USRA 2-8-2 for $200, man what a beautiful engine and runs well with the old QSI electronics.  I plan on putting PS2 in it which will bring it up to $400, but that's a steal for a scale brass engine.

Don't be afraid to take a RailKing engine and modify it.  I have 2 RK engines that I took my Dremel to, ground off all the molded-on detail and put on separate parts.

I can't afford Premier, I'm happy with Imperial RK's. However, I can attest that the Imperial Big Boy is close to correct scale but the Tender is Very much compressed. Those centipede tenders just can't make the curves.

I wish MTH made the Imperials for O-54 track VS O-31 for standard Railking, the tender could be much longer.

Oh, one more thing, the Imperials do not have the number plates or the red wheel handles to shake the grates.

I have both but am careful to not let them sit side by side. I am hoping to replace all my RailKing with Premier or at least Imperial. My first choice is Premier. Having said that and having to many RailKing Steam is will be tough and expensive. All my diesels are Premier I replace all my RailKing. I love the scale and detail of Premier. Not all of the RailKing items have been made in Premier YET.

Can't afford Premier either and I'm not into detail or collecting. I just want something that runs well and looks nice, so I plan to limit myself to MTH RailKing/Imperial and rolling stock that matches. However, if I win the lottery, all bets are off.

It depends; a friend has the scale-sized RK USRA 0-6-0, and I have the Premier.

The Premier looks much better - subtly better, not just in the detailing. The

smokebox front on the RK is a bit wrong. But, the

scale RK USRA 0-8-0 looks quite proper, if you can accept the simplified, but correct,

detailing - which I can, as I'm not a hyper-detail type.

Having said that, I think RK steamers can make a nice addition to our choices, and one of my favorite locos - I've said it before - is the RK Imperial Triplex. Most of the "body

parts" are of a correct 1/4" size (note cab size and boiler girth), and the loco really

strikes me as a 1/4" model of a smaller prototype, if anything - as if there were

actually smaller real Triplexes to model. That's RK and Lionmaster at their best.

At any rate, RK steamers, especially used ones, are often cheap enough for scratch building fodder.

Oh, someone said that the RK UP Big Boy is close to the correct size. Uh, have you

actually seen a 1/4" scale 4-8-8-4?  

Something that I do on some lower end models (not cheap ones, but not high ended in detailing) is to carefully drill out the representation of classification lights and insert LEDs.  I feel that this is a nice dress up for a lower end model, and lights are attractive so this modification give me a nice sense of satisfaction. 

Also, if there is an embossment of valves and such I'll apply a little red paint to them

Alan

I think that there is a big difference between Scale and the traditional size models. Just park one next to the other and it's a no brainer to me.

But, I also feel that the traditional size engines look so much better on my 9ft by 23 foot layout. It's all a matter of opionion and the above belongs to me.

Now go have fun with your trains!!