SUCCESS! RK Scale RS1 won't run in conventional?

Sam, 

Is it a PS3 engine? I've (and others) have found that when going from DCS to Conventional without a transformer reset, the PS3 engines can do weird things. Supposedly there is a fix from MTH but I'm not aware of what it is. Maybe someone that does know can post it. 

what transformers were you using at the club layout tonight?

Alan

i agree with what SJC said give it a conventional reset from the club layout using there transformer!

Alan

Also what is the engine item number?

Alan

also did you try turning off your DCS in the TIU  from the remote and running your engine strictly on conventional on your system. that's another think you can try!

Alan

Yes,  its the 30-2985-1 w/PS2 and has not been run in awhile.  I'll put the charger on it tonight and check it again tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for your input Alan - We have a Z4000 at the club but I have only a 180 brick direct to the TIU so no way to try conventional here at home.

c.sam, if the recharge doesn't work, try the conventional reset.  No TIU in circuit.  One whistle press, then 5 bell presses at 1/2 second intervals.  Cannot be done from the remote.  Occasionally, a PS3 gets locked in neutral or, far worse, in one direction.

just use your Z4000 with the TIU disconnected run the wires directly to the track from the z4000 transformer and due what
RJR said one whistle then 5 bell presses at 1/2 second intervals.if you get the reset to work you will hear 2 toot's (whistle) to let you know it was reset!

Alan

P.S. another word to the wise, Anytime you let your engines sit for a long period of time it's best to charge the batteries BEFORE YOU POWER UP THE ENGINE!

An ounce of PREVENTION IS WORTH A POUND OF CURE!!

Alan

best OF LUCK WITH YOUR RESET

Alan,

Anytime you let your engines sit for a long period of time it's best to charge the batteries BEFORE YOU POWER UP THE ENGINE!

Why?

As mentioned you could  set up a var channel , turn off the dcs signal and test at home using the 180.. Jumper  fixed 1 in over  to var 1 IN  with a couple of pieces of wire. Var 1 out to the track.  You can now also use the dcs  remote's horn and bell button for the combination. A little work but .. Maybe all you need to do  is to charge  the RS-1.

Gregg, when MTH explained to me how to do the conventional reset, they said it had to be done from a transformer.  I have no guess as to whether your system will work or not.

So you're thinking it's stuck in neutral? the factory reset clears this right?

Actually  it came from    MTH  in Maryland years ago  and it does work. I've used it many times. It's just a bit of a pain to set up. Why don't you try it, Lock out an engine or something in conventional. I think it's just a low battery.

So you're thinking it's stuck in neutral? the factory reset clears this right?

Wrong.  MTH says if loco is locked in conventional neutral, only a conventional reset will clear it.

There is a direction lock softkey that works in DCS.

For reasons known only to a select few at MTH, a conventional reset fixes several things that a factory reset in command mode does not fix.

Ooops, I was thinking of the difference with a feature reset. I should have said conventional.

Regretfully, I've not been able to locate the MTH dual charger. I may take a run over to the clubhouse in the next couple of days to try the reset. Meanwhile I'll set her on the bench this evening and let her charge a bit.

How hard did you look?

MTH O 50-1019 Proto Sound 2.0 Battery Charger, cheap at $15.99

I read c.sam as saying he couldn't find his.  I know that problem.

Speaking of the dual charger, can it charge both types of battery at the same time or does that tend to overload it?

Makes sense, obviously he needs two of them!

That was a serious question I asked.  I do get serious on a few occasion, John.

Gave it a quick look around. My shop/home office/occasional guest bedroom ofttimes goes through dramatic changes and things disappear for months at a time!

Robert,

can it charge both types of battery at the same time or does that tend to overload it?

Yes, it can.

This issue being discussed is primarily PS-3.  I do think certain sections of memory are not reset in DCS mode for PS-3. (PS-2 Trolley)  So for Sam's PS-2 engine it is more then likely a battery issue, plus with a weak battery the factory reset in DCS won't take.

Just recently saw this after replacing a PS-3 diesel board and a PS-32.  All functions normal in DCS.  Completed a Factory reset with DCS.  Waited.  Took to the conventional test bench and no motion.  Did a conventional reset and worked fine in conventional.

The other difference is PS-3 at start up in DCS looks at both volume an smoke switch settings and uses them as initial start points.  G

George, I had a problem with a PS/2 board replacement in a trolley, I couldn't get the routes to work.  A conventional reset was what was required.

Right I mention that.  But that is unique and I have not seen this lock in neutral not reset by a factory reset in any PS-2 engines.  Just PS-3   G

Update -  I was able to run by the club layout this afternoon and tried the conventional reset mentioned above - 1 horn followed by 5 bells. No change. I tried 5 or 6 times and varied the time between pushing the buttons. Still nothing.

Back on the bench just now I performed the factory reset from the remote which deleted the engine. I added it back and its working in DCS just fine.  Will get back to the layout again this weekend and see if we've made any progress.

I have no occasion to operate most of my DCS equipment conventionally so this was a complete surprise. I may try a couple of the other PS2 and PS3 engines to see if they will run with just the Z4000.

Did you get 2 toots after the button press?  If not, didn't take  Need 1/2 second interval.

No, no two toots. Maybe I was not fast enough with the hits...

Will try it again in a few days.

Real tough to do.

If you turn power off does the engine play shutdown sounds or does the sound abruptly end?  If abruptly end the battery is drained and the Factory reset probably isn't taking either.  G

The sounds continue all the way through the shut down sequence (really great on this model!)

Quick question - will the battery charge with power to the track or does the engine have to be started up as well?

Loco need not be started up.

Sounds like battery is fine.  So I would go back in DCS and do a factory reset with volume on full.  After the reset, turn track power off.  Make sure it shutdown with sounds.  Wait one minute and transfer to conventional track and try it.  If it still won't move, turn off track power and let shutdown.  Wait 10 sec.  Start back up and with voltage about 10V do the conventional reset 1W 5B.  Should hear 2 toots.  Try a direction change.  The conventional reset must be done in neutral.   G

GGG, as to your last sentence, maybe not.  I had to do a conventional reset on a ps3 loco locked in reverse.

Thanks George. The hassle is I don't have conventional control here on the bench at the house so I'll have to go to the clubhouse later today or tomorrow to attempt the conventional reset again. I'm gathering that I didn't hit the bell button quickly enough between hits.

I'll take my TIU and remote with me to the layout at the club to execute what I can.

This wasn't a concern before when I had my home layout with full command. I never operate in conventional any more for several years now.

We have run DCS from time to time on the club layout and the control can be 'spotty' due to the wiring. DCS is not installed - two of us who run PS2 bring our home sets and plug in when needed.

When being built, I was inactive for a few months due to selling our home and moving so I wasn't present much of the time. The two primary builders were conventional users who didn't have any knowledge of STAR wiring and essentially ran two buses around with numerous blocks per 'old school' wiring design. They effectively 'over-wired' the layout by adding toggles for multiple inputs thinking they were facilitating TMCC and DCS. A true example of 'A little knowledge can be dangerous'.

TMCC/Legacy works fine most of the time but we need to do some serious research into sorting out DCS signal issues.

Interestingly, these two fellas have recently discovered Lioncheif Plus and are finally coming around to the benefits of command control. One of them actually has a few PS2 engines that he hasn't yet operated under DCS, so hopefully we'll see a'coming of age' into the modern world of train control!

Actually you do have conventional control using a brick & tiu. As I mentioned, all you have  set up a var channel and turn off the dcs signal, The dcs remote will now give you the bell & whistle combination. Scroll the voltage up to about 10 volts. 

Here's one of the command Menu/ System/ dcs set up..... you take it from there. A new or reset remote already has the var channels set up, just hit TR. and select the var channel.

PS-3 not PS-2  His is PS-2.

Success!

Was able to get over to the club layout and took my DCS system to plug in. I ran her around for 15 - 20 minutes and took these photos. Then I removed the TIU and sure enough, she fired right up with the Z4000 and cycled through forward and reverse a few times. All was well so I ran it around a few more loops and packed her up for home. Last evening I had performed the factory reset with the remote on the bench. Also charged it for 4 - 5 hours on the track.

It was my intent to try the 1 W and 5 bells suggested by several of you at the layout using just the Z4000 but the problem seems to have been taken cars of by the factory reset.

Thank you all so much for your valuable input. When having problems, I always learn a few things from the informative input here. 

Thank you OGR for hosting this invaluable resource!