Rugged Modern Locomotives?

  That is why I run Williams !  They run for hours on our modular display and don't heat up like post-war engines.

K-line engines were the most rugged modern type in my opinion.

I own locomotives made by Atlas O, K-Line, Lionel, MTH, Sunset/3rd Rail and Weaver. They have been mostly trouble-free but, from my experience, I prefer MTH. With modern locomotives, the reliability of electronics is always worrisome but the mechanical durability and motors are better than Postwar Lionel.

MELGAR

After 15 years of operations only 1 problem with the K-lines, had to replace a motor driver board last month.  I have K-line and Lionel engines.  Lionel are worked on much more.

K-line and Williams.  Built like Tanks for a toy train....

My roster of modern K Line and Williams is limited (4 engines total), but what I have (over 10 years old) gets very good marks from me for ruggedness and reliability ("R&R").

Regarding MTH, I have about 10 engines and I also give them very good grades for R&R with one exception. MTH Proto 1 engines need to be run at least once every few months to remain in good working order because of the battery in them. I'm aware that the battery can be changed to another kind of battery to eliminate this problem, but I have not done that yet. I think  Proto 2 and 3 are very good for R&R. 

Until I joined this Forum around November of last year, I would rotate my hobbies (trains, songwriting, golf, archery shooting targets with recurve bow, and reading) periodically. My wife tells people that being married to me is like being married to 5 different men! LOL. I love that. Anyway, I could easily get engrossed in another extracurricular activity and stop doing trains for years at a time, but I always ran my Proto 1 engines at least once every 6 months knowing there would be problems with them if I didn't.

I have 2 LionChief+ engines purchase since February of this year. I love the features and relative affordability, but one of them has already had its sounds repaired twice by Lionel under the warranty. For that reason,  I give LionChief+ a grade of C- for R&R. To its credit, Lionel has been very good servicing it under warranty, but once the 1 year runs out, I'm only going to run it sparingly to entertain my granddaughters or when I have an audience. 

I would love for Lionel to figure out a way to enhance the R&R of its LionChief+ engines, especially its sounds and the wiring, etc. related to it.

IMO, hands down, Postwar Lionel, especially its late 1940s and early 1950s up to about 1957 is King when it comes to R&R.

I greatly appreciate all of the input you folks have given regarding this topic.

Arnold

Running some of Williams (many converted to use MTH PS2 & PS3 electronics) & MTH Railking which are built very similarly to my Williams. These along with my post war stuff are the most reliable I have run. MPC has been okay with some easily fixed problems and Lionchief (not plus) has been the most problematic on our railroad.

I have a little bit of everything, Post war, MPC, modern(ish). PW Lionel will always be R&R. They haven't lasted this long for nothing. MPC era are simple and easy to fix- parts are readily available too.

Newer members of the fleet include lots of K-line, some Lionel and a few WbB's. The WbB's are very nice and run well. My K-lines can go for hours with no problems.

When it comes to running trains, R&R (Ruggedness & Reliability) means R&R (Rest & Relaxation).

LOL, Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

When it comes to running trains, R&R (Ruggedness & Reliability) means R&R (Rest & Relaxation).

LOL, Arnold

I couldn't agree more, Arnold.  While I applaud the modern features and detailing of model trains, I still like to keep things simple, like myself.....LOL

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

 

I have 2 LionChief+ engines purchase since February of this year. I love the features and relative affordability, but one of them has already had its sounds repaired twice by Lionel under the warranty. For that reason,  I give LionChief+ a grade of C- for R&R. To its credit, Lionel has been very good servicing it under warranty, but once the 1 year runs out, I'm only going to run it sparingly to entertain my granddaughters or when I have an audience. 

Just out of curiosity which LionChief+ have you had repaired twice? I have a LionChief+ Hudson (6-81303) from the 2016V2 catalog that's sound has cut out on me and I've replaced the board 5 times already. Too bad I purchased a refurbed unit that is not covered under warranty.

From my limited experience, I would say that Postwar and modern engines both have pluses and minuses as far as reliability is concerned. I have found on postwar engines E-units are a very weak point vs modern electronic E-units which work great for the most part. Horns on the postwar diesel engines can have many problems vs electronic circuit boards going bad on modern engines. I think that the advantages of postwar engines are its simplicity, availability of parts and repairs can often be performed by the user. Modern engines are smoother running, have more gadgets to play with and many have more detail.

On my "more modern" engines, I like Williams, proto 1 MTH and K-Line. Those engines have worked well for me with very few problems. 

Some of my roster are: 1998 MTH Santa Fe Super Chief set, 1998 Santa Fe 2-6-0 steam set, Williams GG1, K-line Virginian FM, K-line Union Pacific Big Boy (whistle went bad), 2005 K-line CSX diesel

I don't own too many modern locos (I define a "modern" toy train as anything with a knuckle coupler), but in my opinion the most rugged modern locos I have are my MTH Premier Blue Comet and NYC Dreyfuss Hudson. I also have 5 brass Williams Crown Edition steamers, and while they are all great runners, they just don't have the same feel as a die-cast engine, so "rugged" isn't a word I would use to describe them. I like them, but to me it's hard to beat the weight and feel of die-cast. 

John

Can't speak as much from personal experience, but ruggedness and reliability also comes down to what a product is designed for. The post war Lionel trains were designed at toys, to be played with by children, and as a result they were designed to be handled by children, who do all kinds of 'interesting' things to toys, by accident or design. Thus they were die cast or made from strong plastic, they didn't have much detail on them, and the control assembly was a rugged open frame motor, an e unit that while a fasnacht in many ways, was still relatively simply. Outside of that, there was the smoke unit (relatively simple) and maybe the whistle (and later the infamous post war diesel horn).  From what I recall of MPC, they weren't the most rugged of units or reliable, lot of DOA engines from talking to my local LHS at the time, and cheap construction (obviously not knocking all MPC). 

Modern engines are made differently, they despite the claim are not really toys, they are aimed at, well, trains meant to be used by "adults". I wouldn't be surrpised if Lionchief/+ units are a bit more reliable, as they seem to be aimed more at kids getting into trains, but the Legacy and Protosound engines are more and more scale, with a lot of fine detail parts, and contain complex control circuitry. Circuit boards can be finicky, they aren't necessarily the most rugged of things, and being they aren't something like the ECU's on a car (the control unit/computer, which is pretty darn sophisticated these days), aren't built in the kind of quantities where it is practical to ruggedize them...and with any mind of complexity comes the ability for them to fail, too. Williams is relatively unsophisticated, it basically is a can motor, an electronic e-unit and a 'true blast' horn sound card that isn't exactly sophisticated, whereas a legacy control board can handle something well over a couple of hundred thousand control codes and operations,and because Williams is still based on post war designs to a certain extent (direct or 'influenced"), doesn't have the detail work either, so is likely going to be more rugged. If you want something  more rugged and reliable, in other words, "KISS" (keep it simple, silly). 

I enjoy modern trains. I don’t think they’re built as good as post war but to me the modern trains are terrific to operate because coming from HO I never did run at super high speeds. The electronic cruise is the best item ever added to engines. I can’t fix electronic boards however I am very good at making mechanical repairs when needed. 

My post war Lionel engines are tops on quality and reliability.  After that, I woukd rate my early MTH, non protosound, Railking engines as a solid #2.  They are built with the rugged simplicity as Lionel post war engines.

With one exception all my pre Legacy Lionel engines have been reliable. The only outlier is the Niagara but thats been resolved now. MTH engines are rugged mechanically, electronics can be problematic if not cared for.

Pete

RailKing had a Rugged Rails lines of diesel locomotives that are quite rugged.

Andrew

Post war Lionel and Williams BB are pretty much bullet proof.

within the last year, Ive made the leap from semi-scale or traditional size, or whatever you'd like to call it to scale,....some of the best motive power I had were MTH PS1 and PS2 railking locomotives that had bad electronics and wouldn't run....to get them going on the cheap, a bridge rectifier would get them going for less than a buck....now I know they lost all their features, even basic ones like backing up, but good god, a double headed pair of mohawks could pull 55 O27 sizes freight cars from sun up to sun down, barely draw any amperage, never get hot and never quit! I'd have to say sometimes simpler is better, and MTH railking as far as the mechanical end goes are just as rugged as postwar equipment from the Lion