Running MTH Premier GP38-2 Hi-Rail on O31 Curves?

It negotiates Gargraves O31 curves with no problems at all. It might even do O27.

Thank you Barry!  That is just what I was hoping to hear.  There are some good deals available on MTH Premier Diesels.

Robert

I have 2 Premier Diesels and Steamers and they all run on Lionel 031 Track....really depends on your cars.

Thanks Erie Express...I changed my first impression above...there definitely are some MTH Premier engines that will run on O31, and I'm thankful for that.

 

I've decided I wouldn't mind owning at least one premier engine.  Although several are beyond my budgeted range for motive power, but the switchers, some 'cab unit or carbody' units, and other diesels like the GP's are relatively affordable.  The GP's grabbed my interest in particular as affordable Premier engines...found in the $350 range  ... that could run on smaller curves.

 

In fact there is a MTH 20-20198-2 GP35 (scale wheels) for sale by Power Hobby on the mass market auction site for ~$285, but it requires "O31 Radius Curves" (I'm guessing that means O72 track   )

 

I was a little surprised that the GP35 Premier (Hi-Rail) in the 2013 Catalog required O42 curves as I think it's shorter than the GP38-2, but maybe that's 'prototypical' as they say.

 

With my smallish 4x8 layout and semi-scale/traditional rolling stock a moderately sized Premier would be nice.

Robert

 

 

Robert,

In fact there is a MTH 20-20198-2 GP35 (scale wheels) for sale by Power Hobby on the mass market auction site for ~$285, but it requires "O31 Radius Curves" (I'm guessing that means O72 track

The "-2" designation on the item number means that it's a scale wheeled engine and that the curves are rated as radius rather than diameter. This engine, does, indeed require O72 curves because scale diesels have fixed pilots rather than articulated pilots.

 

The GP35 may have 3-axle trucks as opposed to the 2-axle trucks on the GP38-2 or have some other reason why the trucks can't swing wide enough for O31 curves.

Thanks again Barry!

 

One last question regarding the MTH Premier GP38-2 that I forgot to ask...the internet videos I could find appear to show smoke emanating from both 'stacks' on the model, but reviewing the manual on MTH's site I see it only mentions putting smoke fluid in the front stack (I think).

 

Does the model actually smoke out of both stacks?

Thanks again,

Robert

It only has one smoke unit, but many of them have a little manifold that directs the smoke to several stacks, this one appears to have that feature.

 

When you fill the GP38-2 stack, you can use either one.

 

Just be sure to put your finger over the other stack and blow gently down the stack where you put in the smoke fluid, to get it all down the ramp into the smoke fluid chamber.

 

The designation "GP" for "general purpose" designates that the engine will have 2-axle trucks.  "SD" for "special duty" designates the 3-axle trucks.  I have never known it to be different in "real-life" or in the O gauge world.

Thanks John and Barry for confirmation, and thanks SD60M for the additional info on GP designation.

 

As Barry stated it appears to be another reason for the O42 limitation on the GP35...looking more closely at the MTH catalog pics it appears the GP35 Low Hood have fixed pilots, while the GP38-2 does not (although the Ohio Central GP35 Model pictured in the 2013 Vol 1 catalog appears to be a mix-up).

Thanks again gentlemen!

Robert

I don't mean to belabor any point...but, I am fairly certain MTH's GP35s and GP38s will operate on the traditional 031 track.  I am also fairly certain the MTH made both of these locomotives with "swinging pilots" to operate on the small radius track...such as 031.

 

It appears that the GP35 may have been made with scale wheels and fixed pilots.  These engines have the same "stock number" as those with swinging pilots...except that the stock number will end in -2.  My guess is that the -2 locomotives are very much made to order...and you might find only about 50 (who knows for sure) on the market...all of which were purchased by the folks who ordered them.

 

The -1 stock numbers are all 3-rail locomotives with the swinging pilots and couplers and will operate on the small radius track such as 031.  Using my convoluted logic...what would MTH sell to run on that radius track if the 4-axle diesels would not???  The vast majority of folks that MTH sells its diesels to have small layouts...many made with traditional 3-rail track...e.g.  031...so their diesels have to run on that track.

 

Don't buy anything with fixed pilots and scale wheels (the -2 stock number) if you don't have curved track rated as "054" or higher.

 

You're right...MTH does not appear to have made any GP38-2s with fixed pilots and scale wheels...whereas, it does appear they did make some GP35s with fixed pilots and scale wheels.  The scale wheels and fixed pilots have enjoyed some increase in popularity as a segment of the "train world" moves toward what is called 3-rail, scale operations.  See the 3RS forum.

 

I hope I have not confused you and/or made your choices more complicated with my "musings."

I have Hi-Rail a MTH GP38-2(PS2) and a GP35.  They run fine on O31.  My GP35 is a new PS3 model.  A great locomotive.  Enjoy your purchase!

Thanks for sharing that Keith!  That is really interesting and makes me wonder if the MTH 2013 Vol 1 Catalog is just way off...to quote from the catalog for the GP35 Low Hood:

"Unit Measures: 14 3/4” x 2 1/2” x 4 5/16

- Hi-Rail Wheels Operate On O-42 Curves

- Scale Wheels Operate on 31" Radius Curves"

 

 

Versus the MTH 2012 Vol 1 Catalog for the GP38-2...

"Unit Measures:15 1/2” x 2 3/4” x 4”

- High-Rail Wheels Operate On O-31

Curves

- Scale Wheels Operate on 31" Radius

Curves"

 

SD60M, I don't mean to belabor the point either & I think I followed your thoughts (both are offered with Scale wheels, but the required curve specs diverge from there...must have something to do with the pilots), and it definitely caused some confusion for me in picking a Premier Geep model.

 

I decided upon a 'Smurf' at a great deal from Ready to Roll....

 

I wonder how many train purchases start out and end up like this for others...

"Wow, there are some good blowout deals on Williams Geep's ($100)...

To, I wonder what those Williams GP30's can be had at ($200)...

To, I wonder what an Imperial or Scale RK can be currently had for ($320)...

To, Wow, a Premier at that price ($320)    "

 

Quickly dug, deeper and deeper

However, I think I'll be very happy with my choice, and really appreciate the info on curve requirements, smoke, etc.

Robert

Robert,

That is really interesting and makes me wonder if the MTH 2013 Vol 1 Catalog is just way off...to quote from the catalog for the GP35 Low Hood:

"Unit Measures: 14 3/4” x 2 1/2” x 4 5/16

- Hi-Rail Wheels Operate On O-42 Curves

- Scale Wheels Operate on 31" Radius Curves"

There's nothing wrong with the statement by MTH, for two reasons.

 

First, MTH certifies a track diameter only if the engine can negotiate S curves in both directions while pulling cars, and also do the same through the same diameter switch tracks, using MTH RealTrax.

 

Second, MTH O42 RealTrax is a tighter curve than other track systems' O42 curves. For example, Gargraves O42 curves make a 42" circle where MTH RealTrax, measured from the same point on the track, makes a 40.2" circle.

 

My MTH Swiss Crocodile negotiates my Gargraves O42 curves fine but derails on RealTrax 42curves and also fails on O42 Ross switch tracks. It's rated O54 by MTH.

Thanks again Barry!  I didn't know that MTH required the full & smooth operation in S curves with cars as well as the switches.  Also didn't realize Realtrax O42 is tighter than others.

 

I sincerely appreciate all the info I've gleaned off this forum and its members.  It's really sped up the learning curve for me...for example:

 

1) BNSF GP38-2 #2501 arrived quickly from Ready To Roll, but first thing I checked after giving it an initial lube was the DCS/DCC switch.  It was set to DCC so I promptly changed it to DCS.  Thanks OGR!

 

2) Next; I set it up on my O42 loop with the DCS Remote Commander...applied power, no response.  So I immediately move it to my O31 inner loop with DCS Commander, ADD engine, run a couple laps with some basic button tests, then FACTORY reset, placed it back on the O42 outer loop and ran it with DCS Remote Commander

Thanks OGR, DCS Companion and Barry! 

 

Without the help and knowledge on this board I might have been immediately pulling what's left of my hair out wondering 'why won't my brand new Premier engine run?', but sincere thanks for all the great sources of info because instead it was 'Oh, I know what to do here'

 

Brief Review: Cannot be more pleased with this MTH Engine.  Detail is superb, of course I only have one Imperial, and the rest are RTR and Williams engines...so the Premier knocks my socks off.

 

Super smooth running, with a good horn and I prefer this PFA, 'Crew talk or Cab chatter' compared to the back and forth with "Smitty" on my Imperial SD70ACe PS3.

 

Only fly in the ointment so far was a run over a single MTH operating section.  She sputtered a bit, but that section of track was older stock from MBK and one rail is inexplicably tarnished...so it may have nothing to do with the engine (I have an observation car that blinks on that section...need to investigate further).

 

Being a little over an 1" shorter than the SD70, it does not look that bad at all running on the O31 loop IMO, and the double smoking stacks are just too cool (a little hard to see in the pics below because I'm breaking it in with JT's Eliminator, which white smokes a little less than the straight scents).  The color is a little darker than it appears in the MTH Catalog, which is a very good thing as I thought maybe it looked a bit too light for what I assume is Conrail/GATX blue.  Although I'm no prototypical or scale modeler/operator...it does seem very prototypical and I assume scale (massive compared to some traditional RMT 64 stock)...

 

 

Overall I am very happy with my purchase, and a big thanks to Ready To Roll in Miami for the great deal on this engine and their top notch service.

Robert