S Scale MTH F3 Reports

Guess nobody here bought the Jersey Central F's.

Until the Santa Fe's show up, I have nothing to review.  The fiction section still shows them for Feb. 2017.

If they ever show up, I will be running them on DCC, not DCS. 

Rusty

Somebody must have bought the Jersey Centrals as MTH shows almost none left.  My guess is most people who don't have DCC will run them conventional because adding DCS to your layout for one type of engine is pretty expensive.  Plus there is extensive rewiring needed to get them into tour transformer power.

I hope people will write in their feelings about their F3?

Rusty Traque posted:

Guess nobody here bought the Jersey Central F's.

Until the Santa Fe's show up, I have nothing to review.  The fiction section still shows them for Feb. 2017.

If they ever show up, I will be running them on DCC, not DCS. 

Rusty

Hi Rusty

    I just caught a glimpse at the delivery list for the 15 feb. 2017 and the as follows:

Scheduled Arrivals Thru February 15, 2017
January 31, 2017 - In an effort to better inform our retailers and distributors of upcoming arrivals from M.T.H., we have begun publishing a semimonthly list featuring the upcoming items scheduled to arrive at M.T.H. within two weeks of the newsletter article publication date. Upon the completion of quality assurance inspections, the items will begin shipping to M.T.H. Authorized Retailers and Distributors.

   This consisted of the following road names:

Jersey Central:  350001-1 A, 35-0002-1 A, & 35-20004-1 B.

New York Central: 35-20006-1 A, 35-20007-1 A, 35-20008-3 A, 35-20009-1 B, &35-20010-3 B.

Pennsylvania:  35-20011-1 A,  3520012-1 A,  35-20013-3 A,  35-20014-1 B,  35-0015-3 B

Seaboard:  35-20016-1 A,  35-20017-1 A,  35-0018-3 A

That is all they say by the 15 Feb 2017 & those will be in the dealers hands.

No Santa Fe and No UP  I am Waiting for both.

Don

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Somebody must have bought the Jersey Centrals as MTH shows almost none left.  My guess is most people who don't have DCC will run them conventional because adding DCS to your layout for one type of engine is pretty expensive.  Plus there is extensive rewiring needed to get them into tour transformer power.

I hope people will write in their feelings about their F3?

Bill

Please do not take all the wiring recommendations as absolute. They are recommendations. I'm an O gauge (rather be S gauge) model train enthusiast and I have had no problems with DCS and I have not been following all of the DCS recommendations.

DCS is a great operating system; I think better than AF Legacy. And for all those S scale guys, it includes DCC.

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Somebody must have bought the Jersey Centrals as MTH shows almost none left.  

That's a real mystery.  Either there's a whole bunch of Jersey Central enthusiasts in S in the woodwork or the production numbers were for these were lower.

Still it would be nice if MTH would at least announce the trickling arrival of the F3's in their newsletter updates instead of the constant barrage of the Next Show Schedule.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Somebody must have bought the Jersey Centrals as MTH shows almost none left.  

That's a real mystery.  Either there's a whole bunch of Jersey Central enthusiasts in S in the woodwork or the production numbers were for these were lower.

Still it would be nice if MTH would at least announce the trickling arrival of the F3's in their newsletter updates instead of the constant barrage of the Next Show Schedule.

Rusty

    Yes Rusty, they should but I read what Roundhouse Bill wrote about the Jersey Centrals Were going fast and looked for them in the shipping list and more were slated for Feb 2017 on it. Then I did a search for # 35-20001-1 and found at the bottom of the page and found there was a list for the Expecting Deliveries for 15 Feb 2017 clicked on that and found out Just what I told you last time. it was a listing for Dealers and I suppose they have been Notified but why didn't they let us in on the info I have no Idea.

Don 

I just had a lame-brain thought as to why the UP and Santa Fe F3's are at the bottom of the delivery list: They're the only ones with Mars Lights, all the others have the single headlight.

Stoopid and a paper thin rational, I know, but they would require a slightly different assembly instruction at the factory.

Rusty

Good Point!! I think you are correct. I thought that the paint schemes were the culprits that caused the delay. Then again MTH had trouble with the UP Demonstrator at the last show. They said they had repaired the problem but My thought was the Manufacture had to resolved that repair on all those that were produced in the Santa Fe and the UP's.

Don

Donald Payer posted:

Good Point!! I think you are correct. I thought that the paint schemes were the culprits that caused the delay. Then again MTH had trouble with the UP Demonstrator at the last show. They said they had repaired the problem but My thought was the Manufacture had to resolved that repair on all those that were produced in the Santa Fe and the UP's.

Don

Rusty the above is for you. I just went to the arrival list again and now it reads arrivals due to MTH by the 28th of Feb 2017 but the new list isn't Posted yet. Maybe if we do an American Indian Rain Dance ours will maybe on that one. Good Luck to you.

Don

F3 photos

It looks like we will have to modify them for closer coupling.

They come with scale couplers if you are a scale guy.  With the Gilbert style couplers like are on these you can't bring them closer together RoyBoy.

I'm gonna assume that MTH didn't change the bracket for mounting the couplers. 

On the SHS version, I used AM Snap-Lock couplers to shorten the gap.  I simply put a Snap-Lock in the locomotive's original coupler box and ta-da.  No big gap.  I also put the freight pilot and a Snap-Lock on the front for better "looks." 

I never plan on running the A unit separately, (or as a trailing unit) so I'm not worried about Flyer compatibility between the units.

And yes, it still goes around R20 curves just fine.

Rusty

I see some slight differences in the engine shells between the SHS and MTH as well as the underside of the chassis.  I cant't tell if the coupler mountings are the same exactly.  Your idea should work though.

Roundhouse Bill posted:

I see some slight differences in the engine shells between the SHS and MTH as well as the underside of the chassis.  I cant't tell if the coupler mountings are the same exactly.  Your idea should work though.

Hi Bill,

    Since you are comparing the SHS & MTH in the coupler area I wish you would go a little further. According MTH is containing the scale wheels and axels to drop in as SHS did. Is that statement correct? Did MTH also include the passenger pilot as SHS did? The hole looks Huge for the front coupler. They are not thinking like the scale appearance as SHS did.

Don

Looks like a different pilot.

The SHS passenger pilot had the same huge hole:

SHS just normally had the camshell door insert installed.

Here's the Southern and CB&Q F3's shortly after I unpacked them in 2001.  The Q is scalified, the Southern is HiRail.  I hadn't changed the pilot out on the Southern yet:

The prototypes for the SHS F's I own all used the freight pilots, with the exception of the CB&Q whiched used the passenger pilot. 

I modified the door insert to minimize the opening:

Rusty

Nice work as usual.

Rich

Don:  I have been away for the weekend.  

Yes, MTH did put in add on pieces including the scale wheelsets.   I don't have a SHS to really compare with on everything that was in the box as I never did buy SHS products.  I was glad to see MTH put in extra traction tires, 2 extra Gilbert style couplers and 2 scale couplers with attachments to the chassis.

The DCS system did a good job with 2 powered units and features.  DCS seems to be more robust than Legacy, but it is much harder to wire into the layout.  In transformer only operation I found the 2 powered units did not run at the same speed all the time causing problems.

Rusty Traque posted:

SHS just normally had the camshell door insert installed.

Gents,

I don't mean to steal this thread, but I was looking through my parts box (on the way to looking for something else) and found two of the above SHS passenger pilots.  They are left over from a custom painting project I did years ago.  If anybody has a use for them, please let me know off list.  They're yours for postage.  I may even have some hirail wheel sets for the same.

That insert was not installed in either of the A units I got.  Both had Gilbert style couplers in place.

Rusty Traque posted:

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Somebody must have bought the Jersey Centrals as MTH shows almost none left.  

That's a real mystery.  Either there's a whole bunch of Jersey Central enthusiasts in S in the woodwork or the production numbers were for these were lower.

Still it would be nice if MTH would at least announce the trickling arrival of the F3's in their newsletter updates instead of the constant barrage of the Next Show Schedule.

Rusty

    Thank You Rusty, I wish MTH would publish the arrival schedule of the S Gauge F-3's so all could read not just the select Dealers. I just happen to see the Arrivals for Feb. 28, 2017 just once and then I was told that I was not authorized to view that page because I was not a dealer. I think the Santa Fe & the Union Pacific's were on that one but I could never verify that. What we need is one of the Dealers to log in and view that page and let us all know what can we expect for the future. 

    I joined the MTH Train Club and have been very pleased & patient since 2013 for the arrival of the F-3's and everything I have purchased from MTH has been just what SHS had produced to be more and MTH has added more.  Lionel has manufactured many fabulous items and new tooling that was more scale, Legacy, and realism into their models and I applaud them for their accomplishments but SHS was more and MTH is adding More to that S gauge line now. So why doesn't MTH let us all see the new arrivals to weeks in advance of their arrival?

Don 

You are making an assumption that MTH knows exactly when they are to arrive.  When I was waiting to receive an example of the Jersey Central for the S Gaugian review my contact at MTH didn't know exactly when the shipping container would arrive or when exactly it would be through with the customs inspection and be released to them.   It happened about 3 weeks latter than he first estimated. 

Besides what would knowing exactly when they were arriving do for you.  They will be shipped when they get to MTH.  At least now we know that they have been produced and you will get yours as soon and MTH can ship.  They don't make money till you get your F3.

After 4 years of anticipation and delivery date slippage, patience begins to wear thin...

Rusty

Roundhouse Bill posted:

You are making an assumption that MTH knows exactly when they are to arrive.  When I was waiting to receive an example of the Jersey Central for the S Gaugian review my contact at MTH didn't know exactly when the shipping container would arrive or when exactly it would be through with the customs inspection and be released to them.   It happened about 3 weeks latter than he first estimated. 

Besides what would knowing exactly when they were arriving do for you.  They will be shipped when they get to MTH.  At least now we know that they have been produced and you will get yours as soon and MTH can ship.  They don't make money till you get your F3.

Hi Bill,

    I am not making an assumption about the arrival. I saw the arrival of the rest was slated for Feb 15, 2017 but the Santa Fe and the UP's are  not on that one. A few moments there was another arrivals for Feb. 28, 2017. I clicked on that and it went to that list. I scrolled down and there were the Santa Fe's and the Union Pacific's at the bottom. I was just savoring the knowledge when I was informed that I wasn't allowed to see that page because I wasn't a dealer. So I was blanked out. I was just trying to find out if I would have one more or two more or three more months just to get the four engines I ordered back in 2013. As Rusty says the patients have been dashed so many times with these engines that it almost feels like they will never come to us.

    I know I will be happy with them once I have them but the wait is starting to make me believe I will never receive them. I no longer have the resources to buy everything I want. So I have to pick and choose. I knew the in the beginning MTH would have a challenge to incorporate packaging their equipment it the SHS units but they were going to give us the best of the best. S Gauge Train that do more. I just wasn't ready for all the backtracking and rebuilding of the units just to bring them out to the S Gauge Community.

    Thanks Bill I respect your judgement and I will receive them as soon as they release from customs and MTH has time to check them over and ship to the retailers. MTH is doing all they can do with their hands tied with so many variables. When I receive mine I will be happy and very gratified to have waited patiently.

Happy Railroading

Don

Did UP use their F3s to pull passenger trains? 

NotInWI posted:

Did UP use their F3s to pull passenger trains? 

Yes, but apparently on secondary trains:

From the Utah Rails website:

"In September of 1947, the five A-B-B sets of passenger-equipped F3s from that initial December 1946 purchase agreement were delivered. These new passenger locomotives were numbered beginning with 964A, just after E7B number 963B that had been delivered the year before. The cab units, numbers 964A-968A, were equipped with water tanks for the steam generators on the booster units. The booster units, numbers 969B-978B, were equipped with both steam generators and water tanks. These passenger units were also renumbered in early 1948 into the new "B,C" numbering system, at the same time also being renumbered from the original 964A-class to the new 900-class, with numbers 900-904 and 900B,C-904B,C. As each "locomotive" consisted of only one A-unit (instead of two as with the freight units) along with two booster units, each A-unit number had a corresponding set of two booster units.

In May and June 1948 Union Pacific accepted delivery of 12 additional passenger-equipped F3s. The six cab units were numbered 905-910 and the six booster units were numbered 905B,C, 907B,C, and 909B,C. Again, as with the first order of passenger F3s, the cab units were equipped with water tanks and the booster units were equipped with steam generators in the rear of the units and water tanks in the front of each unit.

Additional passenger-equipped units came in late 1948 and January 1949. These 12 booster units, numbers 1430B,C to 1442B,C, were delivered with steam generators and water tanks.

Twenty-eight more F3s were among the 233 diesel locomotives purchased by Union Pacific in 1948 for passenger, freight, and switching service. These were the 28 units in the 1550 class, for use on the Northwestern District. The 14 cab units, numbered 1550 to 1563, and the 14 booster units, numbered 1550B,C to 1562B,C, were built between October 1948 and January 1949."

Rusty

banjoflyer posted:

MTH has just released an email claiming that more of the F-3's are now available and in-stock at MTH and authorized MTH dealers.

The engines now on hand are the Jersey Central, New York Central, Pennsylvania and Seaboard F-3 engines.

If your MTH dealer ordered one of these liveries for you they should have them at their store soon.

Mark

Hi Mark,

    Thank you for posting this I was wondering if the UP & Santa Fe would follow shortly there after.

Don

SF and UP on Feb 2017 schedule now

Brendan

Brendan posted:

SF and UP on Feb 2017 schedule now

Brendan

We're quickly running out of February...

Rusty

Darn this short month

Brendan

poniaj posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

SHS just normally had the camshell door insert installed.

Gents,

I don't mean to steal this thread, but I was looking through my parts box (on the way to looking for something else) and found two of the above SHS passenger pilots.  They are left over from a custom painting project I did years ago.  If anybody has a use for them, please let me know off list.  They're yours for postage.  I may even have some hirail wheel sets for the same.

I desperately need the pilots but don't know how to contact you off list. Will pay more then postage.

Rusty Traque posted:

Brendan posted:

SF and UP on Feb 2017 schedule now

Brendan

We're quickly running out of February...

Rusty

Hi All interested about the MTH UP & Santa Fe's F-3. They will arrive along with the rest of the order arriving by March 15, 2017.

So Rusty, you and I will be receiving our F-3's soon according to the MTH arrivals on the 15th Of March 2017. You have to see it then go to MTH web page and type in 35-20019-1 & 35-20024-1 and the list will be seen when you click on the Arrivals on March 15, 2017 - Dealer. Click on the wording and the list will come up and scroll down to the 35 section and there they are. Happy Days are Here Again!!!

Don

Donald Payer posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

Brendan posted:

SF and UP on Feb 2017 schedule now

Brendan

We're quickly running out of February...

Rusty

Hi All interested about the MTH UP & Santa Fe's F-3. They will arrive along with the rest of the order arriving by March 15, 2017.

So Rusty, you and I will be receiving our F-3's soon according to the MTH arrivals on the 15th Of March 2017. You have to see it then go to MTH web page and type in 35-20019-1 & 35-20024-1 and the list will be seen when you click on the Arrivals on March 15, 2017 - Dealer. Click on the wording and the list will come up and scroll down to the 35 section and there they are. Happy Days are Here Again!!!

Don

I just noticed there's a "Buy It Now" flag on most of the Santa Fe and UP F3's (odd, each road has one powered and one not powered A without the flag...) on the In Stock list, so hopefully they've shipped to my LHS.  I'll find out tonight.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

Donald Payer posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

Brendan posted:

SF and UP on Feb 2017 schedule now

Brendan

We're quickly running out of February...

Rusty

Hi All interested about the MTH UP & Santa Fe's F-3. They will arrive along with the rest of the order arriving by March 15, 2017.

So Rusty, you and I will be receiving our F-3's soon according to the MTH arrivals on the 15th Of March 2017. You have to see it then go to MTH web page and type in 35-20019-1 & 35-20024-1 and the list will be seen when you click on the Arrivals on March 15, 2017 - Dealer. Click on the wording and the list will come up and scroll down to the 35 section and there they are. Happy Days are Here Again!!!

Don

I just noticed there's a "Buy It Now" flag on most of the Santa Fe and UP F3's (odd, each road has one powered and one not powered A without the flag...) on the In Stock list, so hopefully they've shipped to my LHS.  I'll find out tonight.

Rusty

Thanks Rusty I will be watching my LHS also. Yesterday I checked MTH and found out there were no more juggling of engines on the shipping list and no released March 15 2017 list so I figured we were going to be surprised announcement or a call from our LHS SOON.

Don

Rats...  My Santa Fe's haven't arrived at my LHS yet.  Boo-hoo...  

I'll be helping an HO club set up at a train show next Friday, so it'll be at least two weeks before I'm back up there.  Oh well, I've waited this long...

Rusty

Roundhouse Bill posted:

 

<snip>

The DCS system did a good job with 2 powered units and features.  DCS seems to be more robust than Legacy, but it is much harder to wire into the layout.  In transformer only operation I found the 2 powered units did not run at the same speed all the time causing problems.

As many here know, Don Thompson dealt with multiple-heading of powered units by tying them together with MU wires to attain speed and directional consistency. Multiple heading (i.e., "lash ups") with the L-AF modern diesels (SD70s and ES44s) using Train Builder in Legacy is virtually seamless. It will be interesting to see how long that initial opinion of DCS being 'more robust' than Legacy/TMCC lasts. The general consensus on this question tends towards the opposing view in the 3-R O gauge world. 

Have fun.

Bob

Bob Bubeck posted:

Roundhouse Bill posted:

 

<snip>

The DCS system did a good job with 2 powered units and features.  DCS seems to be more robust than Legacy, but it is much harder to wire into the layout.  In transformer only operation I found the 2 powered units did not run at the same speed all the time causing problems.

As many here know, Don Thompson dealt with multiple-heading of powered units by tying them together with MU wires to attain speed and directional consistency. Multiple heading (i.e., "lash ups") with the L-AF modern diesels (SD70s and ES44s) using Train Builder in Legacy is virtually seamless. It will be interesting to see how long that initial opinion of DCS being 'more robust' than Legacy/TMCC lasts. The general consensus on this question tends towards the opposing view in the 3-R O gauge world. 

Have fun.

Bob

The only time I use the MU jumpers on the SHS F's is on my Southern pair in order to keep the Loco-Matic boards in sync.  I don't use them on my conventional DC (Santa Fe passenger F7's) or Lenz DCC F's (CB&Q, UP F3's and Santa Fe freight F7's.)

So far while testing my friend's MTH NYC F3's, I've had no issues with DCC consisting the MTH electronics.

Rusty

Lashing up the MTH F3 diesels was easy when using DCS and they ran fine.  It was transformer only where I had some problems with the two powered units running together smoothly.