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bostonpete posted:
In the news story, the "reporter", and I use that term VERY LOOSLY, stated that the "Conductor blew the horn, and applied the brakes..........". It's ALWAYS the darned Conductor!!!!!!!
Journalism is DEAD!
Hot Water poste:
Journalism is DEAD!
That is definitely not breaking news!
Sorry, but to the average reader, it doesn't matter who blew the horn.
Hot Water posted:bostonpete posted:In the news story, the "reporter", and I use that term VERY LOOSLY, stated that the "Conductor blew the horn, and applied the brakes..........". It's ALWAYS the darned Conductor!!!!!!!
Journalism is DEAD!
That is the terminology in the Polk County Sheriff's Department news release given to the press.
But, who cares anyway. Someone's beautiful little girl was killed.
"But, who cares anyway. Someone's beautiful little girl was killed."
Indeed.
Tuscan Jim posted:"But, who cares anyway. Someone's beautiful little girl was killed."
Indeed.
This is not a dichotomy. Why can't it be both?
Sad, especially that it was a child with their whole life in front of them. I feel for the engineer of the train, even though it looks like there wasn't anything he could have done, he/she likely feels terrible, especially that it was a child, and I hope they get the support they need.
She was supposedly wearing headphones as she crossed the tracks . . . . . . my God. I tried to explain to my sons that common sense rules the world. One terrible mistake and all is lost. A beautiful girl is gone, how sad. Sad for her, her family and also the train crew. They will have to live with this forever.
This is not a dichotomy. Why can't it be both?
Because a comment on a misuse of terminology sets the focus on the misuse, not on the story.
C W Burfle posted:This is not a dichotomy. Why can't it be both?
Because a comment on a misuse of terminology sets the focus on the misuse, not on the story.
It is no secret that I highly question any and everything that the media reports. If they get one item or fact wrong (incorrect or inaccurate), how should I feel about the validity of the remainder of the article?
Scrapiron Scher posted:She was supposedly wearing headphones as she crossed the tracks . . . . . . my God. I tried to explain to my sons that common sense rules the world. One terrible mistake and all is lost. A beautiful girl is gone, how sad. Sad for her, her family and also the train crew. They will have to live with this forever.
Common sense isn't really all that common.
These stories about kids really get to me these days. They are so young and innocent and still learning, some things they just don't yet know or they forget. They are just being kids. Very sad for all involved.
It is no secret that I highly question any and everything that the media reports. If they get one item or fact wrong (incorrect or inaccurate), how should I feel about the validity of the remainder of the article?
So the child wasn't killed?
When I am dealing with "experts" I always pay careful attention when they move into an area with which I have my own expertise. When they get things in those areas wrong, it gives me an indication that they might not have the expertise they claim. So I understand what you are saying.
But I don't call them on their errors.
We've all done something really stupid and been lucky. Any of us might not be here , but for the grace of God.
A child's death regardless of cause or fault is an absolute pity. Even if faultless, the engineer will always wonder, what if... also a pity.
A terrible tragedy for all involved! May that sweet child rest in peace!
"...anyone's death diminishes me,,," - Meditation XVII - John Donne
gunrunnerjohn posted:Common sense isn't really all that common.
One of my favorite sayings.
With all the things going on in the world, I think parents should tell their children NOT TO USE EAR PHONES OUTSIDE THE HOUSE TO MAINTAIN SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!
And if this child took a shortcut, is it possible she was TRESPASSING, which is ILLEGAL!
And when I was growing up there were no help for grief if somebody died. And I remember JFK in Big D. You learned some gravitas. (Ok, I can see a mass shooting.)
And HW is right. This is sad, but blasting this all over the media for eyeballs is not respecting the dead child. The media is dead. Good night.
Sad, but if it were my kid, and the story possibly kept one other kid safe, I hope I'd think and feel there was at least some good that came of it all; it would be ever so slightly easier to handle "God's plan".
Now to look up dichotomy. I only know the word from astrology and botany; I've never heard it used in this context before.
Hot Water posted:bostonpete posted:In the news story, the "reporter", and I use that term VERY LOOSLY, stated that the "Conductor blew the horn, and applied the brakes..........". It's ALWAYS the darned Conductor!!!!!!!
Journalism is DEAD!
Story's been corrected to say "engineer", for what it's worth. Still, a sad thing all around.
Mitch
Dominic Mazoch posted:With all the things going on in the world, I think parents should tell their children NOT TO USE EAR PHONES OUTSIDE THE HOUSE TO MAINTAIN SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!
I agree with this and if I were a parent I would tell my child that if they have to listen to music or some other sound then use only one ear phone and keep the other ear open. I would say this mainly so that they are aware of their surroundings in case of a mugging or a kidnapping.
This is a very sad story and I feel bad for the family. I pray they can get through it.
john in western pa posted:We've all done something really stupid and been lucky. Any of us might not be here , but for the grace of God.
A child's death regardless of cause or fault is an absolute pity. Even if faultless, the engineer will always wonder, what if... also a pity.
How true. I'm sure we've all had that happen.
Near us most of the individuals on bikes and almost all joggers/runners have head phones on while in the street or just darting right into traffic across a street seeming to rely on the auto driver to avoid them. A very sad story and maybe time for schools and parents to constantly reinforce that headphones block your hearing and trespassing is to be avoided. One wonders how long before a lawyer sues the product manufacturer or streaming music source for not warning about the consequences. For shortcuts, our village built a berm at the end of a block rather than a full intersection with the street on the other side which now has a "T" intersection. So kids on the north side ride down a grass covered hill right into cross traffic to continue their journey down the road as they are not walking or riding half a mile out of their way to cross 30 feet of hill.
A sad story indeed. A young life has ended and her parents must deal with the sorrow of her sudden departure from this life, as well as questions that have no clearly defined answers.
Near us most of the individuals on bikes and almost all joggers/runners have head phones on while in the street or just darting right into traffic across a street seeming to rely on the auto driver to avoid them.
I take long walks listening to music with open ear phones all the time.
It is very easy to adjust the volume so you can hear what's going on around you.
With headphones, at least the user can only hurt themselves (walking/jogging/running)
I see people talking on their cell phones and/or texting while driving every day.
So sad to see a beautiful little girl lost. I'm wondering how she missed the crossing gates coming down and the flashing signal lights though? Even with headphones on. Anyways, may she rest in peace.
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This is a horrible tragedy but I just don't understand how an 11 year old couldn't hear the horn, or see the crossing gate lights. Regardless a young life has been lost and we can just pray for the family. I think that we should all teach our children and grandchilden about the dangers of crossing railroad tracks . The old crossbuck signs that said Stop, Look, Listen gave good advise.
Dennis LaGrua posted:This is a horrible tragedy but I just don't understand how an 11 year old couldn't hear the horn, or see the crossing gate lights.
Sadly, it's not uncommon for someone engrossed in their smartphone, with music playing in their ears, to be oblivious to their surroundings.
I recall a cartoon in MAD Magazine back when Walkmans came out in the early 80s of a chap listening to music obliviously walking down the street, obliviously stepping in front of a bus and then obliviously strolling on a cloud in Heaven... :/
Let it be our duty, as train folks, to always spread the word to young adults as best we can. Take the headphones off, or shut them off, in situations where you MUST hear and pay attention. Stay off of the tracks.
I grew up in a town that boasted the highest railroad trestle in New England, at the time. The Greenville NH trestle was on the outskirts of town, and the rail line terminated at the depot in the center of town. Once a year, someone from the town offices would come into the schools and give a talk on the railroad. A little history, and a lot of warnings! The railroad tracks were essential for the town to import and export goods, and anything railroad related was PRIVATE PROPERTY. Anyone caught on railroad tracks or the trestle would be in BIG trouble, and if we got injured or killed, that would make the town look bad and you look stupid. They really knew how to talk to kids. That spur was last used for freight in 1981 and the trestle was torn down in 1984. (My step father, Bronson Potter, flew his airplane under the trestle in 1979. He lost his pilot's license for a while and paid a fine, but he said it was worth it. What a role model, right?) The point being: Kids were made aware, in school, on a yearly basis, that railroad property is private property, and you could be injured or killed, and would get in BIG trouble if you ventured onto that forbidden territory.
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From the description in the article it sounds like she faced a double whammy, she had headphones on and was likely listening to music, plus she was walking and looking at the screen. The headphones obviously limited her ability to hear, especially if she was listening with the music on loud, though if they were typical earbuds they don't necessarily do that great a job blanking out outside sounds. However, what likely made it worse was her looking at the screen, besides the obvious that she was looking at that, not at the tracks, when you stare at a screen like that, focus on it, it also limits your processing of other senses. Think about it, you are reading a book, focused on that, and someone says something and you are like "what did you say?", because you were focused on the book. Even if the girl's headphones let her hear the train, by focusing on the screen it likely limited her ability to process that the train was coming even if she heard it. Sadly, a lot of people simply don't think of train tracks as being dangerous, maybe because with trains in many places no longer the prime way of shipping things, people have stopped thinking about that, while perceiving that roads are a lot more dangerous. The same person who might walk down a set of tracks wearing headphones and not paying attention would likely be a lot more unlikely to do so on crossing a road (not saying it doesn't happen, lot of stupid accidents with people getting hit because they are not paying attention while texting, etc walking across a road).
And how many kids get safety instructions about train tracks these days? Much more likely to emphasize being safe on crossing streets or walking on them or riding a bike on them.
I do not think children are getting ANY safety info from parents. What you have just described happens at street crossings also. You do not need parents or Mary Poppins; just give them the electronic nanny!
ALL drivers' education courses, whether public or private, should include a railroad-approved (AAR?) safety course, and perhaps a railroad safety class for elementary schools that focuses on rail safety, especially the many dangers of TRESPASSING on railroad property. Many NON-TRAIN oriented adults and most young children really do not understand the operations, function and geography of real railroads. It takes more than so-called "common sense" and parental guidance from non-rail parents! I am speaking as a former college professor and twenty-one years as a public school teacher - please see my HAPPY STORY thread about my promotion of rail safety education in my classrooms! 
NOTE: Though never a railroad employee, I have been previously certified as a steam locomotive fireman and engineer trainee at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum (TVRM) in Chattanooga, TN. As such, I had to pass a written rules exam based on the Southern Railway Rule Book, as well as practical exam. I have operated both steam (2-8-0's) and first generation RS1 Alcos, plus have switched, braked, conducted, laid rail, repaired steam locos, and have operated a turntable. Much of this work was done under the auspices and guidance of seasoned rails who also worked as volunteers. Some were retired road foremen or traveling engineers, while others had been signal maintainers or conductors. I learned a lot from those men! As a volunteer rail, and a teacher in the public schools of Nashville, TN, I passed this knowledge of rail safety to hundreds of my students over a twenty-one year tenure.
There are such courses. Google Operation Lifesaver!
Tinplate Art posted:ALL drivers' education courses, whether public or private, should include a railroad-approved (AAR?) safety course, and perhaps a railroad safety class for elementary schools that focuses on rail safety, especially the many dangers of TRESPASSING on railroad property. Many NON-TRAIN oriented adults and most young children really do not understand the operations, function and geography of real railroads. It takes more than so-called "common sense" and parental guidance from non-rail parents! I am speaking as a former college professor and twenty-one years as a public school teacher - please see my HAPPY STORY thread about my promotion of rail safety education in my classrooms!
Maybe start teaching them in kindergarten and have a refresher every year after until graduation! Young kids forget things and they easily get distracted when something more exciting comes along. IMO, as adults, it's our job to protect them and make sure they know about these dangers for the life ahead of them. Whether it's parents or schools or however they get the knowledge it is important to them and their survival.
I also agree with you that some parents these days may not realize the dangers of trains, rail tracks and corossings. I think you have made some very good points here, and I did read and enjoy your other thread. Also, young kids are very curious and want to learn. If we don't teach them they may learn anyway, but it could certainly be the hard way just as well as any other way.
In my working life I worked some elementary schools as an outside contractor doing repairs and upgrades to the buildings. Many a young student would come up and ask me "what are you doing?" or "what is that?", "can I touch it?" etc. Seems like the younger they were the more questions they had. I always tried to help them as much as I could and make it so they could understand, or at least tried to. Kids are great and they do have some really interesting questions that make you think! I am not a very good teacher, but I always enjoyed the kids asking questions.
RTR12: You have also made some good points and suggestions! :-)
Too bad they can't come up with some sort of shaker or vibrator that will shake the tracks 10-15 seconds in front of the train. That 10 second 4.4 earthquake 40 miles from me sure woke me up at 2:30 in the morning the other day.
Just to give contrast, it isn't like this kind of situation is common in this country, where kids are killed on railroad tracks, a lot more kids are killed being hit by cars on roads while walking or riding a bike or crossing a street, and a lot more young people are killed when they start to drive then ever are hit by trains. We have driver ed to try and prevent the carnage that hits far too many young people, not so sure a national campaign is needed with kids from the time they are in kindergarten. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have safety awareness, but the reality is that very few kids interact with trains to the point of getting hurt or killed, compared to the kids who are killed on the roads.
rdunniii posted:Too bad they can't come up with some sort of shaker or vibrator that will shake the tracks 10-15 seconds in front of the train.
That should sure sit well with the various cities/towns along the right-of-way!
That 10 second 4.4 earthquake 40 miles from me sure woke me up at 2:30 in the morning the other day.
