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Here is an interesting article for preventing grade crossing incidents with large trucks / buses stuck on the tracks. Very simple concept at the right cost. 

It does not solve the problem (note the seat belt reference), but it may help.

Paul

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The damsel in distress, tied up and left on the railroad tracks, is one of the oldest and most clichéd cinema tropes.

 

Browsing YouTube late at night, Fermilab Technical Specialist Derek Plant found that this clichéd crime has connections to real, contemporary accidents that happen far more than they should. The videos all begin the same way: a large —a bus, semi or other low-clearance vehicle—is stuck on a railroad crossing. In the end, the train crashes into the stuck vehicle, destroying it and sometimes even derailing the train. According to the Federal Railroad Administration, every year hundreds of vehicles meet this grisly fate by trains, which can take over a mile to stop.

"I was just surprised at the number of these that I found," Plant said. "For every accident that's videotaped, there are probably many more."

Inspired by a workplace safety class that preached a principle of minimizing the impact of accidents, Derek set about looking for solutions to the problem of trains hitting stuck vehicles. Railroad tracks are elevated for proper drainage, and the humped profile of many crossings can cause a vehicle to bottom out.

"Theoretically, we could lower all the crossings so that they're no longer a hump. But there are 200,000 crossings in the United States," Plant said. "Railroads and local governments are trying hard to minimize the number of these crossings by creating overpasses, or elevating roadways. That's cost-prohibitive, and it's not going to happen soon."

Other solutions, such as re-engineering the suspension on vehicles likely to get stuck, seemed equally improbable.

After studying how railroad signaling systems work, Plant came up with an idea: to fake the presence of a train. His invention was developed in his spare time using techniques and principles he learned over his almost two decades at Fermilab. It is currently in the patent application process and being prosecuted by Fermilab's Office of Technology Transfer.

"If you cross over a railroad track and you look down the tracks, you'll see red or yellow or green lights," he said. "Trains have traffic signals too."

These signals are tied to signal blocks—segments of the tracks that range from a mile to several miles in length. When a train is on the tracks, its metal wheels and axle connect both rails, forming an electric circuit through the tracks to trigger the signals. These signals inform other trains not to proceed while one train occupies a block, avoiding pileups.

 

Plant thought, "What if other vehicles could trigger the same signal in an emergency?" By faking the presence of a train, a vehicle stuck on the tracks could give advanced warning for oncoming trains to stop and stall for time. Hence the name of Plant's invention: the Ghost Train Generator.

To replicate the train's presence, Plant knew he had to create a very strong electric current between the rails. The most straightforward way to do this is with massive amounts of metal, as a train does. But for the Ghost Train Generator to be useful in a pinch, it needs to be small, portable and easily applied. The answer to achieving these features lies in strong magnets and special wire.

"Put one magnet on one rail and one magnet on the other and the device itself mimics—electrically—what a train would look like to the signaling system," he said. "In theory, this could be carried in vehicles that are at high risk for getting stuck on a crossing: semis, tour buses and first-response vehicles," Plant said. "Keep it just like you would a fire extinguisher—just behind the seat or in an emergency compartment."

Once the device is deployed, the train would receive the signal that the tracks were obstructed and stop. Then the driver of the stuck vehicle could call for emergency help using the hotline posted on all crossings.

Plant compares the invention to a seatbelt.

"Is it going to save your life 100 percent of the time? Nope, but smart people wear them," he said. "It's designed to prevent a collision when a train is more than two minutes from the crossing."

And like a seatbelt, part of what makes Plant's invention so appealing is its simplicity.

"The first thing I thought was that this is a clever invention," said Aaron Sauers from Fermilab's  office, who works with lab staff to develop new technologies for market. "It's an elegant solution to an existing problem. I thought, 'This technology could have legs.'"

The organizers of the National Innovation Summit seem to agree. In May, Fermilab received an Innovation Award from TechConnect for the Ghost Train Generator. The invention will also be featured as a showcase technology in the upcoming Defense Innovation Summit in October.

The Ghost Train Generator is currently in the pipeline to receive a patent with help from Fermilab, and its prospects are promising, according to Sauers. It is a nonprovisional patent, which has specific claims and can be licensed. After that, if the generator passes muster and is granted a patent, Plant will receive a portion of the royalties that it generates for Fermilab.

Fermilab encourages a culture of scientific innovation and exploration beyond the field of particle physics, according to Sauers, who noted that Plant's invention is just one of a number of technology transfer initiatives at the lab.

Plant agrees—Fermilab's environment help motivate his efforts to find a solution for railroad crossing accidents.

"It's just a general problem-solving state of mind," he said. "That's the philosophy we have here at the lab."



Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-09-...er-railroad.html#jCp

 

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Interesting post. Thanks!  But it would seem to me that most of these accidents happen quickly or due to driver error -- like a bus or big truck trying to beat a signal.  (At least based on watching all those videos that get posted on the Forum. :-)

So I question how realistic it would be to have one of these devices on the 'backseat like a fire extinguisher', which must then be deployed so the driver can hop out of the vehicle and use the emergency call line at the crossing.

Seems like a lot of moving parts, if you will, in a situation that usually has split second timing.  I like the idea but would expect that the device should be designed to "just work" if a bus or emergency vehicle got caught on railroad tracks.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

P.S. - I didn't have time to read the full story in case it addresses some of my concerns ... TRRR

There's a word that describes this theory. However, it's the Sabbath, I am off to church, this is a family forum, and I promised my wife that I would not tell stupid people that they are stupid for at least a month.

"His invention was developed in his spare time using techniques and principles he learned over his almost two decades at Fermilab."

I suggest that the "inventor" use his time in a more productive way. Two decades is a long time to come up with the concept of shunting the rails to drop a relay.  I have been doing that since 1954 when Santa Claus brought me my first train set.

He should also do some research into railway grade crossing techniques and terminology. I suspect that he will be amazed to find the definition of an "island" circuit.

 

Oh...one more thing...what if this bizarre scheme were to be employed in "dark" territory...?  

Last edited by Arthur P. Bloom

If you're going to put these at every crossing, why not just use existing magnetic loop technology that is used for millions of traffic lights and has proven itself very reliable?  Personally, I'd go for the device to just trigger a really loud recording at the crossing that says over and over...

"Get out of the vehicle... get out of the vehicle... get out of the vehicle, STUPID!"

I think the Achilles Heel of this product is it takes manual intervention to connect the device to the rails.  Of course, you also have to have purchased it in advance and know how to use it, not to mention think of it at the time you happen to get stuck.  If there's no train in sight, I suspect most folks would be busy trying to get unstuck until it's too late.

How many people have a first aid kit in their cars?  Some cars today even come without a spare, and very few people buy the optional spare!  Hard to imagine that many of these devices being deployed to actually make a difference statistically.

Any real safety advance has to be a passive device at the crossing that doesn't require driver input to trigger the warning and that works for any car or truck.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

Here's another problem: If the train has already passed the signal for the block that includes the grade crossing, then the device won't do any good. Or in cases where the signal is very close to the crossing, setting the signal to red in front of an oncoming train only a few hundred feet down the track from the signal won't help, either. The actual likelihood that this device would prevent a collision in any particular instance of a car or truck being stuck on a crossing doesn't seem very high to me, because all the variables have to be just right (location of the signal, location of the train in relation to the signal, speed of the train, correct operation of the rail-circuit device, etc.). And what about dependable electrical power for the device? The idea of a passive device makes more sense, even if not perfect (there's still the matter of signal location in relation to the crossing, etc.)

 

The device doesnt sound small or convenient.

A RR radio (?) Once turned on, it should stay on for tracking purposes.

  Fast and all weather for short range at least. Kept next to the fire extinguisher, flares, etc. ..Lets see you find those pressure points in a blizzard of deep snow.

Maybe if a set of "jumper cables" mounted to the undercarrage could send a signal.....the radio is the fastest outside of road traffic proximity sensors at a crossing though.

Ship to shore radio gets occasional idiots and does well.

The idea sounds like a gimick sale to me.

 

At every railroad crossing is a small blue sign mounted on the pole below the crossbucks.  On that sign is an 800 number as well as a serial number that serves to identify the crossing location.  If a vehicle is stuck on a crossing; all one needs to do is evacuate the vehicle; stand well clear of the crossing and phone that 800 number.  When you provide the crossing serial number; the operator can identify the crossing location and the dispatcher will be contacted and advised the crossing is fouled.  

You don't need expensive electronic crossing circuits to activate this "warning system";  just a cell phone.  I have long wondered why Operation Lifesaver does not run public service commercials advising people of these small blue signs and their purpose.

Curt

In the early NS days in the Pgh. area I was at Emsworth taking RR videos. A freight went by with a badly smoking axle so I called that 800 on my car phone. Bingo !! the dispatcher  was on the radio in less than a minute. Of course, they knew I was a rail fan and doubted me and the engineer was not happy. He had just gone through a detector which didn't sound an alarm. Fortunately a signal maintainer nearby was alerted and backed me up. I carry an NS and CSX phone number in my wallet. Everyone should.

gunrunnerjohn posted:
Adriatic posted:

How about bigger signs and making it the the new #1 question on driving tests for a decade or two.

Good idea since almost everyone has a cell phone.  Simple fix, doesn't cost anything but enlarging the signs for the RR, and you use something you already have.

About 72% in America have cell phones.

You could put a ph# sign under crossbucks as well.

Over time, many will recall the number.........if they dont change it.

While this works to an extent for the general population, but for speed, especially  for certain vehicles like busses or fuel/chemical  shipments, an emergency radio would be a better choice and not extremely cost prohibitive.

  If the radio sends a becon type warning that the engineer can hear, any local train can be slowed to a safer speed till things are confirmed despite any panicky rants and confusion over location by a person.

  An "on only" radio only needs to be able to transmit a few miles to a train. Even in bad weather that should be easy enough. Adding a gps inside it also is the safegaurd you know where the signal is if extremely remote. Kinda like a FRED with radio backup of voice and signal.

Phones require dispatching and that is just wasted time for those situations.

The primary and best safety device is the nut behind the steering wheel.  Never start across the tracks unless there is room to clear the tracks.  Options are to run the red light(right turn, Clyde) or take the on coming traffic lane to get off the tracks. If you are on the tracks between the gates, you may be able to clear the tracks by moving your vehicle parallel to the tracks.  Or bust the gates.  First and foremost, pay attention while driving.  The rare exception is a low boy or double drop semi trailer hung up on the tracks.

If you cannot move your vehicle, get out and walk in the direction from which the train is coming and away from the tracks.  You should not want to be 'downstream' of the collision.  This is presented in very basic fashion in the Boy Scout Railroading merit badge requirements.  John in Lansing, ILL

Big Jim posted:

It reads to me like the guy is trying to re-invent the ..."Jumper Cable"!

I remember talking to a fire fighter once who told me whenever they were near rr tracks his department would take a spare battery down the tracks and hook jumper cables to either rail.  I don't pretend to know how exactly the block track electronics work but it would seem to me this was doing something.

Beyond a cable that needs manually applied, it would seem either loops with magnetic pickup just like a traffic light detector or some form visual detection that would detect something over the tracks for about 30seconds, and then trigger an occupied block signal would be  much more effective then something that needs applied by someone who is stressed out because they are stuck.

This of course means all the costs stay with the RR, but its probably better than having the public messing with the crossing gate systems.  

The general concept of some type feedback to the RR seems like a good idea to me.

jhz563 posted:
Big Jim posted:

It reads to me like the guy is trying to re-invent the ..."Jumper Cable"!

I remember talking to a fire fighter once who told me whenever they were near rr tracks his department would take a spare battery down the tracks and hook jumper cables to either rail.  I don't pretend to know how exactly the block track electronics work but it would seem to me this was doing something.

Beyond a cable that needs manually applied, it would seem either loops with magnetic pickup just like a traffic light detector or some form visual detection that would detect something over the tracks for about 30seconds, and then trigger an occupied block signal would be  much more effective then something that needs applied by someone who is stressed out because they are stuck.

Did you happen to read Rich Melvin's post, above? You are mistakenly assuming that there are even railroad signals on the line. There are a HUGE quantity of highway/street/road crossings on railroad lines WITHOUT any track signals what-so-ever. Thus, none of this proposed clap-trap crap will work!!!!!!

This of course means all the costs stay with the RR, but its probably better than having the public messing with the crossing gate systems.  

The general concept of some type feedback to the RR seems like a good idea to me.

 

Hot Water posted:
jhz563 posted:
Big Jim posted:

It reads to me like the guy is trying to re-invent the ..."Jumper Cable"!

I remember talking to a fire fighter once who told me whenever they were near rr tracks his department would take a spare battery down the tracks and hook jumper cables to either rail.  I don't pretend to know how exactly the block track electronics work but it would seem to me this was doing something.

Beyond a cable that needs manually applied, it would seem either loops with magnetic pickup just like a traffic light detector or some form visual detection that would detect something over the tracks for about 30seconds, and then trigger an occupied block signal would be  much more effective then something that needs applied by someone who is stressed out because they are stuck.

Did you happen to read Rich Melvin's post, above? You are mistakenly assuming that there are even railroad signals on the line. There are a HUGE quantity of highway/street/road crossings on railroad lines WITHOUT any track signals what-so-ever. Thus, none of this proposed clap-trap crap will work!!!!!!

This of course means all the costs stay with the RR, but its probably better than having the public messing with the crossing gate systems.  

The general concept of some type feedback to the RR seems like a good idea to me.

 

A set of jumper cables attached to each rail  might  show the block as occupied..

. We have a lot of heavy mail line  slag ballast and apparently a really good heavy rain  will (might)turn the block to show occupied, It's happened.

Even a section men's track  spud  bar  laid across each rail  could  show an occupied block.

Did you happen to read Rich Melvin's post, above?  No.

 

 

Gregg posted:
Hot Water posted:
jhz563 posted:
Big Jim posted:

It reads to me like the guy is trying to re-invent the ..."Jumper Cable"!

I remember talking to a fire fighter once who told me whenever they were near rr tracks his department would take a spare battery down the tracks and hook jumper cables to either rail.  I don't pretend to know how exactly the block track electronics work but it would seem to me this was doing something.

Beyond a cable that needs manually applied, it would seem either loops with magnetic pickup just like a traffic light detector or some form visual detection that would detect something over the tracks for about 30seconds, and then trigger an occupied block signal would be  much more effective then something that needs applied by someone who is stressed out because they are stuck.

Did you happen to read Rich Melvin's post, above? You are mistakenly assuming that there are even railroad signals on the line. There are a HUGE quantity of highway/street/road crossings on railroad lines WITHOUT any track signals what-so-ever. Thus, none of this proposed clap-trap crap will work!!!!!!

This of course means all the costs stay with the RR, but its probably better than having the public messing with the crossing gate systems.  

The general concept of some type feedback to the RR seems like a good idea to me.

A set of jumper cables attached to each rail  might  show the block as occupied..

And just how would THAT work in Track Warrant, i.e. DARK, territory?

. We have a lot of heavy mail line  slag ballast and apparently a really good heavy rain  will (might)turn the block to show occupied, It's happened.

Even a section men's track  spud  bar  laid across each rail  could  show an occupied block.

Did you happen to read Rich Melvin's post, above?  No.

 

A set of jumper cables attached to each rail  might  show the block as occupied..

And just how would THAT work in Track Warrant, i.e. DARK, territory?

It wouldn't work  ,  Go back and read my post...never mind here it is.      .What about all the territory with out signals?   First step.... get the heck out the vehicle and phone if possible.

Hot Water posted:
jhz563 posted:
Big Jim posted:

It reads to me like the guy is trying to re-invent the ..."Jumper Cable"!

I remember talking to a fire fighter once who told me whenever they were near rr tracks his department would take a spare battery down the tracks and hook jumper cables to either rail.  I don't pretend to know how exactly the block track electronics work but it would seem to me this was doing something.

Beyond a cable that needs manually applied, it would seem either loops with magnetic pickup just like a traffic light detector or some form visual detection that would detect something over the tracks for about 30seconds, and then trigger an occupied block signal would be  much more effective then something that needs applied by someone who is stressed out because they are stuck.

Did you happen to read Rich Melvin's post, above? You are mistakenly assuming that there are even railroad signals on the line. There are a HUGE quantity of highway/street/road crossings on railroad lines WITHOUT any track signals what-so-ever. Thus, none of this proposed clap-trap crap will work!!!!!!

This of course means all the costs stay with the RR, but its probably better than having the public messing with the crossing gate systems.  

The general concept of some type feedback to the RR seems like a good idea to me.

 

Sir,

 why must you shout?  And also, I see no post by the webmaster above mine, nor did I see one before I put up my reply. I did my best to read the whole thread before posting.  

Have a Blessed Evening Sir.

John Z

It does not require using a battery or other electrical current to make a shunt that will cause crossing signals to be activated or to cause block signals to display a red aspect in both directions (in many cases all the way to the next siding  or crossover in each direction.  The current is already in the rails.  I worked a local freight with a Conductor who carried a couple of magnetic clips with a wire about the size of an electric guitar cable connected to them.  When we had to use a spur that had a short crossing circuit, he would drop a magnet onto each rail and get the signals working and lift them after the engine or cars entered the crossing circuit.  That prevented a lot of stopping, waiting, and starting.

As an official, I had three shunts with heavier wire and c-clamps on each end.  I could screw down the c-clamp on the base of each rail to cause signals to display Stop and Proceed indications in ABS, or at intermediate signals in CTC, for the purpose of making operations tests.  I had to use two, in order to set a current of traffic in the direction of the expected train, so that the train would encounter green, double yellow or flashing yellow, solid yellow, and red with a numberplate on the mast.  Just using one would have made everything red in both directions for quite a distance.

So, sure, a driver with knowledge of all this could carry a screw-down c-clamp shunt and use it if there was a signal system in use on the track he was disabled over, but why?  The best answer, as others have already pointed out, is to leave the vehicle and use the toll free number on the little blue sign on the crossbuck.  It has a unique DOT number to identify the exact crossing, and, unless a train is closely approaching, there's a likelihood that it will be contacted by radio and will stop.

jhz563 posted:
Hot Water posted:
jhz563 posted:
Big Jim posted:

It reads to me like the guy is trying to re-invent the ..."Jumper Cable"!

I remember talking to a fire fighter once who told me whenever they were near rr tracks his department would take a spare battery down the tracks and hook jumper cables to either rail.  I don't pretend to know how exactly the block track electronics work but it would seem to me this was doing something.

Beyond a cable that needs manually applied, it would seem either loops with magnetic pickup just like a traffic light detector or some form visual detection that would detect something over the tracks for about 30seconds, and then trigger an occupied block signal would be  much more effective then something that needs applied by someone who is stressed out because they are stuck.

Did you happen to read Rich Melvin's post, above? You are mistakenly assuming that there are even railroad signals on the line. There are a HUGE quantity of highway/street/road crossings on railroad lines WITHOUT any track signals what-so-ever. Thus, none of this proposed clap-trap crap will work!!!!!!

This of course means all the costs stay with the RR, but its probably better than having the public messing with the crossing gate systems.  

The general concept of some type feedback to the RR seems like a good idea to me.

 

Sir,

 why must you shout?  

What makes you think I was "shouting"?  I only canalized two words for extra emphasis.

And also, I see no post by the webmaster above mine, nor did I see one before I put up my reply.

Apparently Rich deleted his post.

I did my best to read the whole thread before posting.  

Have a Blessed Evening Sir.

John Z

 

In order for the driving public to remember the 800 number, I suggest (after decades of thought on this subject) that the 800 number be changed to...oh, I don't know...something easy to remember...say...911.  

Then instruct every PSAP manager to instruct his/her employees with the necessity to contact the RR dispatcher having jurisdiction as quickly as possible in the event that they get a call from a stuck trucker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...fety_answering_point

I really don't really understand the apparent prevalence of grade crossing accidents. I'm certainly not the world's greatest driver, but in 55 years of driving I have never even come close to being hit by a train at a grade crossing. I pay attention to the flashers and I never drive around the gates (if there are any), and I know enough about trains to understand that it takes a long distance to stop a heavy freight moving at 60 mph. 

Hot Water posted:
 

Did you happen to read Rich Melvin's post, above? You are mistakenly assuming that there are even railroad signals on the line. There are a HUGE quantity of highway/street/road crossings on railroad lines WITHOUT any track signals what-so-ever. Thus, none of this proposed clap-trap crap will work!!!!!!

 

 

In defense of those so targeted, I have yet to see a post by Rich.

Big Jim posted:
Hot Water posted:
 

Did you happen to read Rich Melvin's post, above? You are mistakenly assuming that there are even railroad signals on the line. There are a HUGE quantity of highway/street/road crossings on railroad lines WITHOUT any track signals what-so-ever. Thus, none of this proposed clap-trap crap will work!!!!!!

 

 

In defense of those so targeted, I have yet to see a post by Rich.

Rich must have deleted his post.

Arthur P. Bloom posted:

In order for the driving public to remember the 800 number, I suggest (after decades of thought on this subject) that the 800 number be changed to...oh, I don't know...something easy to remember...say...911.  

Then instruct every PSAP manager to instruct his/her employees with the necessity to contact the RR dispatcher having jurisdiction as quickly as possible in the event that they get a call from a stuck trucker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...fety_answering_point

That's far too sensible Arthur, it'll never fly!

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