Santa Fe Blue Goose "Music Video"

Well, that music put me to sleep!

Two interesting things about the Blue Goose.

First, Santa Fe never had streamlined passenger cars to match the locomotive.

Second, the 4-8-4 #3765 was originally going to be streamlined the same way as the 3460, but the extra weight of the streamlining would have added too much weight to the engine.

Stuart

Except for the Pendulum coach...

...whose paint job inspired all of the model Blue Goose passenger cars.

The irony is this streamlined locomotive spent most of her career pulling secondary and mail trains consisting of heavyweight equipment or mixed with streamlined equipment before heading off to Valhalla.

Rusty

dkdkrd posted:

BTW, the only noticeable change to the streamlining treatment on this Baldwin engine in its service lifetime was the cylinder covers. 

KD

A good part of the skirting was also "raised:"

What I've always found interesting was that in the builder's photo, the number 3460 appears to be in (dark blue?) paint on the tender below the Santa Fe, but doesn't appear in any in service photo.  Perhaps the number was added in the darkroom.

Rusty

Interesting photos.  Icky music, sounds like it was swiped from the opening credits of a movie, but was definitely not written for this slide show.

Did anyone else notice that, in some of the color photos from the late 1940's-early 1950's, that the engine appears grey instead of light blue?  That just shows that there's always at least a thin, almost invisible, oily exhaust blowing back over an oil fired steam engine.  And the frequent rain encountered on the Eastern Lines probably made it worse.  As we know from the Great Northern and the Rock Island, blue paint fades badly when applied to railroad equipment.

I actually saw this engine on its one and only trip to Los Angeles, in 1949.  And I remember it as looking grey (although now I realize that it was actually very light blue).

Maybe I'll start calling her the Grey Goose. 

When was the Blue Goose removed from service?   Why did the Santa Fe maintain a stream lined locomotive when other railroads removed streamlining; for examples, PRR, NYC and CB&Q? (not that I am complaining - a very unique and formidable engine !!)

The Blue Goose last ran revenue service was July 12, 1953 on the Gulf Lines to Fort Worth and returned to Argentine the next day. It was last fired up at Argentine Feb 27, 1954 for a movie to celebrate complete diesel power on the Santa Fe. It was sold to the George T. Cook Company, May 1956, and scrapped at Sheffield Steel in Kansas City on June 14, 1956. This is from an article be Lloyd Stagner in June 1985 Trains magazine. 

mark s posted:

When was the Blue Goose removed from service?   Why did the Santa Fe maintain a stream lined locomotive when other railroads removed streamlining; for examples, PRR, NYC and CB&Q? (not that I am complaining - a very unique and formidable engine !!)

Well, the Pennsy never de-streamlined the T-1's...

(Trains Magazine 12/84)

Rusty

Number 90 posted:

Interesting photos.  Icky music, sounds like it was swiped from the opening credits of a movie, but was definitely not written for this slide show.

Did anyone else notice that, in some of the color photos from the late 1940's-early 1950's, that the engine appears grey instead of light blue?  That just shows that there's always at least a thin, almost invisible, oily exhaust blowing back over an oil fired steam engine.  And the frequent rain encountered on the Eastern Lines probably made it worse.  As we know from the Great Northern and the Rock Island, blue paint fades badly when applied to railroad equipment.

I actually saw this engine on its one and only trip to Los Angeles, in 1949.  And I remember it as looking grey (although now I realize that it was actually very light blue).

Maybe I'll start calling her the Grey Goose. 

Thanks so much Tom!  I always greatly appreciate your insight, expertise, and commentary!  A scale Blue ( Gray ) Goose is on my " most wanted locomotive list" and I'm keeping an eye out for one offered at a good price. Of course I may have to sell a couple of locos from my fleet first

Incidentally, there was recently a brass quintet written and published in honor of the Blue Goose.  My quintet, Monumental Brass,  is considering learning it and performing it next year.  Perhaps we'll record it and create a new slide show using this music 

Totomac:  thank you, just what I was looking for !

Rusty - Yes, the Pennsy T1's were never de-streamlined. Streamlining was the least of their problems!  They were retired so quickly that the thought of removing streamlining never became an issue, I suspect. PRR did have a K4 Pacific or two, which were streamlined, then returned to conventional form.

mark s posted:

Totomac:  thank you, just what I was looking for !

Rusty - Yes, the Pennsy T1's were never de-streamlined. Streamlining was the least of their problems!  They were retired so quickly that the thought of removing streamlining never became an issue, I suspect. PRR did have a K4 Pacific or two, which were streamlined, then returned to conventional form.

While the T1's were never destreamlined, they did have some of the skirting cut off, and the front end modified with steps.

Stuart

Stuart posted:

mark s posted:

Totomac:  thank you, just what I was looking for !

Rusty - Yes, the Pennsy T1's were never de-streamlined. Streamlining was the least of their problems!  They were retired so quickly that the thought of removing streamlining never became an issue, I suspect. PRR did have a K4 Pacific or two, which were streamlined, then returned to conventional form.

While the T1's were never destreamlined, they did have some of the skirting cut off, and the front end modified with steps.

Stuart

 

As did most streamlined steam.  Even the GS4's:

I think only the Norfolk & Western, Canadian Pacific, Canadian National/GTW bucked the trend on cutting back or eliminating sheet metal.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

Stuart posted:

mark s posted:

Totomac:  thank you, just what I was looking for !

Rusty - Yes, the Pennsy T1's were never de-streamlined. Streamlining was the least of their problems!  They were retired so quickly that the thought of removing streamlining never became an issue, I suspect. PRR did have a K4 Pacific or two, which were streamlined, then returned to conventional form.

While the T1's were never destreamlined, they did have some of the skirting cut off, and the front end modified with steps.

Stuart

 

As did most streamlined steam.  Even the GS4's:

I think only the Norfolk & Western, Canadian Pacific, Canadian National/GTW bucked the trend on cutting back or eliminating sheet metal.

Rusty

In the case of the N&W, not only didn't they remove the streamlining from the J's, they streamlined both the war built J-1's (into class J's), and the K-2/K-2a 4-8-2's.

Stuart

Rusty Traque posted:

Except for the Pendulum coach...

...whose paint job inspired all of the model Blue Goose passenger cars.

The irony is this streamlined locomotive spent most of her career pulling secondary and mail trains consisting of heavyweight equipment or mixed with streamlined equipment before heading off to Valhalla.

Rusty

The 3460 (and the rest of the unstreamlined 3460 class Hudsons) were regularly assigned to the streamlined Chief between Chicago and Colorado (where 3776 and 2900 class Northerns took over for the journey to Los Angeles) from 1937-mid 1946. In 1946 Alco PAs and passenger FTs bumped the 3460 class to secondary trains like the Grand Canyon. The 3460 class were regulars on the Fast Mail their entire careers though. Here's 3461 on The Chief leaving Dearborn Station in Chicago. 

Chicago & North Western had a streamlined 4-6-2 which remained intact to retirement, as did their 4-6-4's. L&N had a rather unfortunate (ok, just my opinion) streamlined 4-6-2; think it made it all the way to retirement. Oh, and B&O President class Pacifics, which pulled the Cincinatian.

mark s posted:

Chicago & North Western had a streamlined 4-6-2 which remained intact to retirement, as did their 4-6-4's. L&N had a rather unfortunate (ok, just my opinion) streamlined 4-6-2; think it made it all the way to retirement. Oh, and B&O President class Pacifics, which pulled the Cincinatian.

and N&W Class J 4-8-4 with streamlining were retired in 1958-59. 

Not that most people would ever know, late in life the N&W J's were being opened like a tin can up on top. As my father related to me, they were leaving the top of the skyline casing off in order to facilitate maintenance to ancillaries mounted on top of the boiler. Overhead photos near the end are very rare and I think that I have only  seen two photos in books showing the skinned back top of the J's. My books are currently packed away, so, I can't provide an example. 

Rusty Traque posted:

dkdkrd posted:

BTW, the only noticeable change to the streamlining treatment on this Baldwin engine in its service lifetime was the cylinder covers. 

KD

A good part of the skirting was also "raised:"

What I've always found interesting was that in the builder's photo, the number 3460 appears to be in (dark blue?) paint on the tender below the Santa Fe, but doesn't appear in any in service photo.  Perhaps the number was added in the darkroom.

Rusty

Rusty, in the June 1985 issue of “Trains” magazine, Lloyd Stagner wrote a long article about the Blue Goose. He stated that the number 3460 was indeed painted below the “Santa Fe” on the tender as delivered, but was removed during the first shopping.