Saving the Indy O/S Scale Meet

Been there twice before S was integrated.  Do not know the vendor percentage of 0 vs S at the later shows.  Understand that some S items can be used with 0 - depending. 

That being said, the problem with most shows is that the prevailing H0 scale becomes the prevailing percentage.  If I was to drive the day it takes to get to Indianapolis, I surely don't need to look at a majority of H0 (or N) vendors.

Location isn't to terribly important as long as there is parking, I can stay at other lodging.

I liked it as an O scale only show, but accepted it as O/S.  Would even accept other scales IF they were conspiculously segregated, so l don't have to pick nuggets out of the mud.  Also was happy with either first, closer, or second hotel location (except year when airport ccostruction demolished the area).  I attended some kind of forgotten show at a park in the NW off I-65 (Lebanon?) once. Also attended train auctions on the SE of Indy (church?), and at a National Guard post south of town. (With assorted wars for years, Nat. Guard posts have been unavailable, but maybe that will now loosen up)  As Strasburg  O show is in a firehall???   Does Connor Prairie host shows..have indoor faciity? Many Cleveland shows are in a union hall.   I don't need hotel, so that is irrelevant.  Promoter could suggest, maybe even block rooms for any nearby hotels/motels.  (Indy has lots) ...l realize if you are flying in with no rental car,  hotel and shuttle may be convenient, but Strasburg does without..just ideas..

I really like the Indy show,  great variety.  Shame to see  on life support.  The present and past promoters have really tried to make a great go of it.

OTOH...

The Strasburg PA firehouse show is a gem of a successful example. Maybe even a template other show promoters could duplicate.

Excellent geographic location between NYC, DC beltway, Baltimore, Philly, Jersey Shore.  Plus it sure does not hurt for the Strasburg show to be in the heart of Pennsy Country!

Acres of free parking,  readily expandable floor space size, friendly folks, wide variety of product, some very well connected vendors, wide selection of reasonable motel or ABnB rooms, plus a whole weekend of RR activities outside of the show it's self.

$5.00 admission, $30 tables.

@Tom Tee posted:

The Strasburg PA firehouse show is a gem of a successful example. Maybe even a template other show promoters could duplicate.

Excellent geographic location between NYC, DC beltway, Baltimore, Philly, Jersey Shore.

A good thought - and more smaller regional shows and meets more frequently held than Indy might be a positive template to replicate.  Quite possibly more realistic and acceptable on costs all around for all parties.

@Tom Tee posted:

I really like the Indy show,  great variety.  Shame to see  on life support.  The present and past promoters have really tried to make a great go of it.

OTOH...

The Strasburg PA firehouse show is a gem of a successful example. Maybe even a template other show promoters could duplicate.

Excellent geographic location between NYC, DC beltway, Baltimore, Philly, Jersey Shore.  Plus it sure does not hurt for the Strasburg show to be in the heart of Pennsy Country!

Acres of free parking,  readily expandable floor space size, friendly folks, wide variety of product, some very well connected vendors, wide selection of reasonable motel or ABnB rooms, plus a whole weekend of RR activities outside of the show it's self.

$5.00 admission, $30 tables.

What type of space?

@Brad Kowal posted:

What type of space?

Strasburg is ~100 tables, Brad.  Usually sold out hence my statement about more smaller regional shows and meets more frequently held potentially being something to replicate.

Oft times overlooked are the very real costs to attending large shows that require a day or more travel each way; factor in hotels nights, gas and tolls.....attending can very easily become a losing proposition for sellers.

2 cents from someone who isn't a hard-core O scaler but has attended the Indy meet a couple of times...

Indy is a great location - easy to reach from all directions, good airport connections, reasonable hotel prices.  I've been put off by the high price of attending - $25ish for a swap meet and a few layout visits seems high.  I understand that there are a lot of fixed costs that have to be spread over a relatively small number of participants, but it still seems like a lot - joining up with another group might help to lower the per-person cost.

The Indianapolis area has at least two NMRA shows that are very well attended, and coordinating with one of them might be worth pursuing.  Main problem is that they're in November and January when travel can be dicey.  Another option might be to try to combine with the Hoosier Traction meet (if it comes back post-Covid) - their meet is in September and a lot of the trolley guys model in O, so it seems that the groups could be complementary.

The earlier suggestion about trying to coordinate with a regional convention sounds like it could have merit.

There are numerous shows in my area, Detroit, not as frequently as Chicago area but still 1-2 a month over the winter.    There were more before the Chinese flu thing.  

And these shows are open to all scales and such.    As a result, finding any 2-rail is nearly impossible.    I have visited a few in the past, and after a few of walking around and I have maybe seen one or two old Weaver cars and no other O scale.   The shows are dominated by old lionel 3 rail, and old HO and some newer HO, even some American Flyer S.    This is understandable, because there are many more people interested in those things than O 2 rail.   

My experience is these shows are not worth attending for O Scale 2 rail, unless you just want an afternoon out.   Certainly drving for 6-8 hours and spending the night in the hotel, is not  worth it to me.

@Mallard4468 posted:

The earlier suggestion about trying to coordinate with a regional convention sounds like it could have merit.

Firm maybe on that - most regional NMRA conventions are not set up for hosting what is effectively a large trading pit of O scale.  The space needed for that activity might be negotiated as a rider to the convention if one starts early on. My own region already has the hosts for the regional conventions set out 4-5 years into the future so planning generally has to be considered well in advance.  So probably doable, but will take real coordination in advance.  The issue becomes slightly more complicated regarding registration costs - that's just one of the major issues in trying to marry the Nat'l O scale convention to a Nat'l NMRA convention.

@mwb posted:

Strasburg is ~100 tables, Brad.  Usually sold out hence my statement about more smaller regional shows and meets more frequently held potentially being something to replicate.

Oft times overlooked are the very real costs to attending large shows that require a day or more travel each way; factor in hotels nights, gas and tolls.....attending can very easily become a losing proposition for sellers.

Okay, got it!  Reducing the Indy Meet to that size would make finding space much easier.  The event would be reduced to a meet for the local guys only as I doubt people would travel far distances for the much smaller meet.  BUT, if there is no workable alternative to keep the show as large as it is now, it would be saved for the local guys.

@prrjim posted:

There are numerous shows in my area, Detroit, not as frequently as Chicago area but still 1-2 a month over the winter.    There were more before the Chinese flu thing. 

And these shows are open to all scales and such.    As a result, finding any 2-rail is nearly impossible.    I have visited a few in the past, and after a few of walking around and I have maybe seen one or two old Weaver cars and no other O scale.   The shows are dominated by old lionel 3 rail, and old HO and some newer HO, even some American Flyer S.    This is understandable, because there are many more people interested in those things than O 2 rail.  

My experience is these shows are not worth attending for O Scale 2 rail, unless you just want an afternoon out.   Certainly drving for 6-8 hours and spending the night in the hotel, is not  worth it to me.

Building on your thoughts; another challenge with such a combined event is that the O scale portion would be marketed on a more National level, where the non-O Scale portion is marketed on the local level.   Competing for space with other scale organizations could turn into an issues whenever they feel they need more space.  We would most likely be at somebody else's behest since we'd be begging to become part of their show.

I am OK with S scale as part of the show. The S scale modular layout at Indy has been a treat. The smaller shows like Strasburg and Cleveland are nice, but are beyond reach if it takes 8+ hours to get there. I really enjoy the March Meet and have been going for 30 years. It is a 5 hour drive, requiring a stay at the hotel. The crowd gets thinner after lunch and there is a surge Sunday morning for a few hours. Perhaps that can be condensed into one day. The clinics and the model contests are worthwhile. Indy was a nice start to the modelling season and Chicago was a bookend.

-Al

@Brad Kowal posted:

Okay, got it!  Reducing the Indy Meet to that size would make finding space much easier.  The event would be reduced to a meet for the local guys only as I doubt people would travel far distances for the much smaller meet.  BUT, if there is no workable alternative to keep the show as large as it is now, it would be saved for the local guys.

Well, maybe, but you might be underestimating things - Strasburg draws from NY and further north and the south to folks in NC and then as far west as Indiana.

I'm suggesting that a network of smaller regional shows might be far more workable and that those that want to drive 10 hours can do that if they choose to do so. Day trips or single hotel night shows could prove to be more palatable.  Strasburg, Cleveland, Indy. and maybe 2-3 more to fill in and about -- just need an organization to coordinate, etc. to avoid conflicts, etc.

Honestly, I lose money on going to Chicago or Indy - folks very conveniently forget about seller costs: gas, tolls, 3-4 hotel nights and a seller is in red as a starting point, and then factor in 2-3 or more tables.  That consideration limits enthusiasm for table holders.

I don't find Strasburg as big as l think it should be, in the center of major population areas.  Only once when l attended, in the fall or spring, did l find tables into the fire truck garage area.  Yet people rave about it and come far.  It is the "only game in town" is why. Same for Cleveland, and same could apply to Indy even if it was a smaller show.  Chicago, once with All Nation and other O mfrs, in past, disappoints if compared to Wheaton, but l can't think of an O scale item l found at Wheaton .  I have found, little lately, O at Timonium.  O for sale seems to be held for the O meets.  So we gotta hav'em.

The Railroad Prototype Modelers folks are joining with the NMRA folks for a convention in Indy May 18 to 22, 2022. Just mentioning this as the RPM group might be someone to team up with in the future for a show. They are definitely 2 rail.

Jim K

@aoslapas posted:

I am OK with S scale as part of the show. The S scale modular layout at Indy has been a treat. The smaller shows like Strasburg and Cleveland are nice, but are beyond reach if it takes 8+ hours to get there. I really enjoy the March Meet and have been going for 30 years. It is a 5 hour drive, requiring a stay at the hotel. The crowd gets thinner after lunch and there is a surge Sunday morning for a few hours. Perhaps that can be condensed into one day. The clinics and the model contests are worthwhile. Indy was a nice start to the modelling season and Chicago was a bookend.

-Al

We've actually considered adding a day to the March Meet.   Friday is set up day/night, with the discussion meetings in the evening.  Sunday is the short day with everybody packing up and heading out of town.  That leaves only Saturday night to either tour layouts or go out to dinner with your buddies.  It's difficult to do both.  Adding a day would allow for more socialization, which is 50% or more of the reason to attend.  We were actually offered Thursday in the Contract for the same price. 

If the Westin is available in September, would we want to consider a March Meet and September Meet in Chicago/Lombard?

@Brad Kowal posted:

We've actually considered adding a day to the March Meet.   Friday is set up day/night, with the discussion meetings in the evening.  Sunday is the short day with everybody packing up and heading out of town.  That leaves only Saturday night to either tour layouts or go out to dinner with your buddies.  It's difficult to do both.  Adding a day would allow for more socialization, which is 50% or more of the reason to attend.  We were actually offered Thursday in the Contract for the same price.

If the Westin is available in September, would we want to consider a March Meet and September Meet in Chicago/Lombard?

Interesting possibilities.  Perhaps using the Fall slot for the O scale Nat'l?

I would come a day early if there were layout tours, IRM visits, maybe a dinner with a speaker/show. Yes, September would be great 👍🏻

@Brad Kowal posted:

With regards to the Indy Meet; there are a number of people that are interested in keeping this thing going.  Many alternatives to hotels are being discussed, including combining the Indy Meet with events that include other scales, possibly the NMRA Regional Meet etc.

What thoughts do you folks have regarding any of this?  Is hotel space a must; does this have to be an O Scale Only show?  Please empty your soul here and provide us with some guidance as to what you want and/or do not want regarding the Indy Meet.

Well, you asked, so here goes:

I.  The Indy show:

  A.  Experience:  I went to the Indy show 3 times, all back when Jim C was running it.  I know I had a table at at least two of them, and probably all three;  one of the shows was as I recall late in the Summer, and was also the National.  I was disappointed all three times, and stopped going -- it had the appearance and costs of a national show, but the attendance of a regional one.

  B.  Location:  Not that wild about Indy as a 'destination' -- not that much railfanning compared to other locations [  just IC / Indiana RR and Beech Grove, the latter requiring a tour ]  and not the easiest / best shopping for Mrs SZ.  And even though it's closer than the MM, the drive always seems longer.

C.  Would I go for a one day show there ?  No.  But I'd consider a one or two day show at some other locations. See IIB below

II.  The March Meet:

A.  In my opinion the only thing wrong with the March Meet is that it's in March [ or early April ] -- and the weather then is just not conducive to doing outdoor things, and could be a problem in the drive over or back.  I think mid-or late-September would be the ideal time, and I/we would probably come earlier or stay an extra day.  [  The best "March Meet" I ever attended wasn't really one:  It was a National, but held at the same location, and in the summer;  wife and I had a great time;  mid 1980's ?]

B.  I don't think the 0 scale market can really support two full March Meets, one Spring, one Fall, as we know them;  and I think I would have to choose one or the other just from my time standpoint.  But I would consider  going to a one day or maybe a 1.5 day show -- say setup Sat am, show opens at 11 or noon, and closes at 1 on Sunday, with one night in the show hotel.  I think a good location might be the South Bend-Elkhart area -- but you need a lot more vendor / attendee inputs on that.  Do you have a plot on where March Meet attendees come from, broken down not only by home location, table holder or not, drive or fly, etc ?

C.  I don't think combining the show with an NMRA meet is a good idea, but the 0 + S approach, say,  would be acceptable IF it were necessary to reach critical mass.

D.  If I have a table at the March Meet or any other multi-day show like a National, I will always* stay at the host hotel.  If I don't have a table, then it might be more convenient to have a room somewhere other than the western suburbs, depending upon what else is on the agenda.  [*Well, almost always:  Years ago I did stay sometimes with friends in Downers G, especially if I were sharing a table with him -- they would twist my arm....].

E.  I only attend Nationals and major meets if I can drive there.  One OSW was the exception, 20+ years ago.

So there.  Others experiences and opinions will vary of course.  If you haven't done so already, why not email a survey form to your MM (e)mailing list, or something similar ?

Best regards, SZ -- who is not a Dealer, just has the the usual 0 scalers' ton of surplus stuff, yet wants / "needs" more.....

Thank you very much for considering taking on the Indianapolis show appreciate you picking up the March Meet.

I would happily support either meet that you might do in the future great to see someone carrying the torch for the greater O scale world.

You may consider polling the people at the next march meet regarding any changes as that your audience that's expecting the same thing that's happened in the previous meets and have been faithful to the show.

The core is to be able to get the dealers out there by your tables as they're the ones that will attract a good Share of the public.

Look forward to seeing you in April for the March Meet and any future Meets you're kind enough to host.

Cheers Carey Williams

Long live ...Vintage O Scale !

I live in northwest Iowa. Chicago is a 10 hour drive, Indy is 12 hours, Denver 10 hours. Anything much more than that, I don't drive.  In 2018, I took the train from Omaha to the National in  Rockville, MD, that was an enjoyable trip.

Dick

Does it need to be in Indy.  Kokomo, being a major UAW town for Chrysler has a nearly brand new big Union hall that can be rented.  Several hotels, resturants, Indy is 40ish minute to the south drive.  For railfanning, Norfolk Southern's ex Wabash line is 30 min drive to the north or 1.5 hours to Ft Wayne where NS has a big yard and the Chicago line comes into to the picture.  We really do need a fall O scale meet to start off the modeling season.  Combining with the Hoosier traction meet might be a good idea to explore.  I am switching to O scale traction, so both are of interest to me. There has to be a solution to the issue with Indy without diluting the show with loads of trains in scales less than O/S.  Traction would be a very minor dilution if combined with that event.   Kokomo is planning to build a combined hotel/convention center in downtown ,but they have not even broke ground yet.  But the UAW local 685 union hall might be an option.  Heck, in Urbana IL they do a 2 day show (all scales) in a shopping mall, then the misses can go shop while we shop.    I live in Kokomo and I am a local 685 member.  Feel free to reach out to me via PM if I can be of help.     Mike

I'm guessing that most sellers will drive wherever you schedule an event.  But, placing an event in a smaller town, away from easy airport access (or Amtrak access) will probably cause most long-distance attendees to drop out.  Whatever the show manager saves in "costs," even if somehow reflected in lowered entry rates, will be more than offset by increased transportation costs to the site by attendees (whether car rental or "bus" costs).

Chuck

@PRR1950 posted:

I'm guessing that most sellers will drive wherever you schedule an event.  But, placing an event in a smaller town, away from easy airport access (or Amtrak access) will probably cause most long-distance attendees to drop out.  Whatever the show manager saves in "costs," even if somehow reflected in lowered entry rates, will be more than offset by increased transportation costs to the site by attendees (whether car rental or "bus" costs).

Chuck

While I agree that many long-distance travelers will drop out, the overwhelming majority of intercity travel is by automobile.  An additional benefit of shows utilizing personal vehicles is that you have an easy way to get your stuff to a show (if vending) and taking your treasures home (if just buying).  That said, I'm not sure that airport or rail station access is mandatory for show success.  A smaller city could even be economically beneficial in terms of floor space rental and room rates.  Last, with respect to multiple scale shows, my philosophy is "2-Rail O or I don't go!"  There are too many local HO + N scale shows to consider attending a watered-down O-Scale show.  It's just not worth the drive and hotel expenses to see eight or ten O-Scale tables at a 150 table show. 

@Bill Chaplik posted:

While I agree that many long-distance travelers will drop out, the overwhelming majority of intercity travel is by automobile.  An additional benefit of shows utilizing personal vehicles is that you have an easy way to get your stuff to a show (if vending) and taking your treasures home (if just buying).  That said, I'm not sure that airport or rail station access is mandatory for show success.  A smaller city could even be economically beneficial in terms of floor space rental and room rates.  Last, with respect to multiple scale shows, my philosophy is "2-Rail O or I don't go!"  There are too many local HO + N scale shows to consider attending a watered-down O-Scale show.  It's just not worth the drive and hotel expenses to see eight or ten O-Scale tables at a 150 table show.

The Indy O Scale Meet was combined with S Scale, which worked out quite well.  Neither scale watered down the other, yet it brought in enough attendance and room sales to make it work.

A smaller city could even be economically beneficial in terms of floor space rental and room rates.

Yes, to a point depending on where that smaller city is located.  But that also goes to my thoughts that a series of smaller non-competing regional shows through which everyone benefits would be far more attractive than 1-2 larger shows.  Strasburg is 3 times a year; Cleveland is off-set and 1 time a year; if we could get the Harrisburg guys to off-set from the Strasburg schedule.....and maybe then get a smaller show in Sept off towards Indiana.....   You'd think that maybe that's something the OSK could coordinate.....maybe even working with regional NMRA orgs (stay away; run away from Nat'l NMRA....)...establishing a network that might actually enhance 2 rail O scale.

At the present moment, keeping the Meet in the immediate Indianapolis area is financially impossible.  We still have the option to hold the Meet at the last hotel, however the registration cost would be $75 per person  with $132 per night rooms.  AND we would have to meet 100% of the registration and room sales of last 2021.  Another hotel closer to the airport would push registration to $200 with higher priced rooms.  A hotel downtown, related to the Westin franchise, would be the best option if we didn't have vehicles to park.  We could probably do that for $30 registration, however parking is $40 per day.  2 days pushes the effective cost to $110; plus we're looking at a $180 per night room rate......plus tax and re-tax.

The O/S community is not used to dishing out that kind of cash, so I highly doubt anybody would.

@Brad Kowal posted:

At the present moment, keeping the Meet in the immediate Indianapolis area is financially impossible.

Good to be able to rationally eliminate that option.

@PRR1950 posted:

I'm guessing that most sellers will drive wherever you schedule an event.  But, placing an event in a smaller town, away from easy airport access (or Amtrak access) will probably cause most long-distance attendees to drop out.  Whatever the show manager saves in "costs," even if somehow reflected in lowered entry rates, will be more than offset by increased transportation costs to the site by attendees (whether car rental or "bus" costs).

Chuck

To @artfull dodger's suggestion of Kokomo (good out-of-the-box thinking re location and including the traction folks) - the travel time from IND is probably only about 30 minutes longer than driving to the east side of Indianapolis.  It's also a shorter drive for folks coming from Chicago or Detroit.

Both Malls, are nice and do host other vendors, especially in the holiday time here in Kokomo, One thing I do notice is way to much grey hair.  A more "public" venue is an excellent chance to promote O scale modeling to the general public.  Getting this hobby, and some of the lesser known scales front and center in the public eye can only be a good thing. O scale 2 rail modeling is not well known in the younger generation, or its advantages over the smaller scales. With the cost of HO going sky high in recent times.  The advantages of O Scale, even in small spaces, needs to be extolled to the general public looking for a great winter time/year round hobby.  Granted doing it in that kind of venue shoots any type of entry fee to the show, but then one just makes the layout tour and such a paid for feature.  Just getting ideas on the table.   Peru also has a very nice fair grounds with 2 large buildings, that will host a train show this coming Saturday(the 16th of April).  The county fairgrounds for Kokomo are just to the east in Greentown.  I bet any of these venues are much less expensive than a convention center near an international airport where the Indy meet has been held.  Thinking outside the box, which these shows have most definatly been inside that "box" for decades, needs to be looked at in a serious manner.  The more the merrier as they say.   

@artfull dodger posted:

Both Malls, are nice and do host other vendors, especially in the holiday time here in Kokomo, One thing I do notice is way to much grey hair.  A more "public" venue is an excellent chance to promote O scale modeling to the general public.  Getting this hobby, and some of the lesser known scales front and center in the public eye can only be a good thing. O scale 2 rail modeling is not well known in the younger generation, or its advantages over the smaller scales. With the cost of HO going sky high in recent times.  The advantages of O Scale, even in small spaces, needs to be extolled to the general public looking for a great winter time/year round hobby.  Granted doing it in that kind of venue shoots any type of entry fee to the show, but then one just makes the layout tour and such a paid for feature.  Just getting ideas on the table.   Peru also has a very nice fair grounds with 2 large buildings, that will host a train show this coming Saturday(the 16th of April).  The county fairgrounds for Kokomo are just to the east in Greentown.  I bet any of these venues are much less expensive than a convention center near an international airport where the Indy meet has been held.  Thinking outside the box, which these shows have most definatly been inside that "box" for decades, needs to be looked at in a serious manner.  The more the merrier as they say.   

The Indy Meet is mainly a meet for those currently in O and S scales.  In order to spread our wings, we would need to become more than a flea market and social.  That would require more layouts etc..  The first step is to save the meet, if possible.  The next step could be to extend our reach.  When the hotels cooperate, thing work well.  We are looking at non-hotel venues, however that makes the operation of the meet much more difficult.  We still have to provide tables and even if we don't have a contract with a hotel, those attending need a hotel to stay overnight.  There ae still administrative, staff and advertising expenses that need to be covered.  The jury is still out as to whether or not the community as a whole will understand that and still pay enough of a registration and table charge to cover the expenses outside the hotel.  If we're lucky enough to find adequate space, we will find out:-)

@Brad Kowal posted:

The Indy Meet is mainly a meet for those currently in O and S scales.  In order to spread our wings, we would need to become more than a flea market and social.  That would require more layouts etc..  The first step is to save the meet, if possible.  The next step could be to extend our reach.  When the hotels cooperate, thing work well.  We are looking at non-hotel venues, however that makes the operation of the meet much more difficult.  We still have to provide tables and even if we don't have a contract with a hotel, those attending need a hotel to stay overnight.  There ae still administrative, staff and advertising expenses that need to be covered.  The jury is still out as to whether or not the community as a whole will understand that and still pay enough of a registration and table charge to cover the expenses outside the hotel.  If we're lucky enough to find adequate space, we will find out:-)

Another thought...  the Central Indiana Division of the NMRA is hosting a joint regional convention with the Railroad Prototype Modelers in May.  Partnering with another group (such as an NMRA/TCA/LCCA etc. division) might provide opportunities to spread the various costs over a larger number of participants, since other groups are facing a lot of the same issues.  Doing so would entail some compromises, such as having other scales and/or 3-rail items at the swap meet, but that doesn't seem unreasonable if it allows the meet to continue.

@mwb posted:

Strasburg is ~100 tables, Brad.  Usually sold out hence my statement about more smaller regional shows and meets more frequently held potentially being something to replicate.

Oft times overlooked are the very real costs to attending large shows that require a day or more travel each way; factor in hotels nights, gas and tolls.....attending can very easily become a losing proposition for sellers.

Case in point. I was at Chicago on Wednesday night. My hotel was about $650 plus food. If I had driven from home it would have cost around $135. But it was worth every penny of it. I had a great time.

Dick

Hotel costs are sky high in California, so most meets were at public halls or country fair grounds.

But even they have gone "up-scale" to "Event Centers".

Old school club halls (ie Elks, Masons, Eagles) are still a option if still open in your area.

Sacramento Area has nice shows in these halls.

Covid issues have closed many of the old options.

@CBQer posted:

Case in point. I was at Chicago on Wednesday night. My hotel was about $650 plus food. If I had driven from home it would have cost around $135. But it was worth every penny of it. I had a great time.

Dick

I'm glad that worked out for you -- however, that's not an expense that a lot of people can absorb.  Others are not as fortunate as you.  Appealing to more that have tighter budgets and less resources available might be something to consider otherwise the pool of modelers that can attend shows is going to decline even faster.

Hello all: Is combining the Indy show and the Cleveland show out of the question? They are both in the fall nad just two months apart. Even though Cleveland is one day could it be expanded to two days?

@nikkormat posted:

Hello all: Is combining the Indy show and the Cleveland show out of the question? They are both in the fall nad just two months apart. Even though Cleveland is one day could it be expanded to two days?

Cleveland is a small show in relative table number but it's being 1 day (generous assessment) makes it marginally worth a full day's travel to get there.  2 days might be good if the venue and organizers could work that out while also expanding it some.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Another thought...  the Central Indiana Division of the NMRA is hosting a joint regional convention with the Railroad Prototype Modelers in May.  Partnering with another group (such as an NMRA/TCA/LCCA etc. division) might provide opportunities to spread the various costs over a larger number of participants, since other groups are facing a lot of the same issues.  Doing so would entail some compromises, such as having other scales and/or 3-rail items at the swap meet, but that doesn't seem unreasonable if it allows the meet to continue.

Main problem with that is they won't provide us with enough space.  We need a minimum of 10,000 sq ft .

@mwb posted:

I'm glad that worked out for you -- however, that's not an expense that a lot of people can absorb.  Others are not as fortunate as you.  Appealing to more that have tighter budgets and less resources available might be something to consider otherwise the pool of modelers that can attend shows is going to decline even faster.

The larger Meets cost more to operate, but being larger people are willing to travel.  Smaller Meets are less costly to operate, however people are less willing to travel far distances.