Scale of Post War Lionel Trains

The trains you have (especially your GG1) are toys, not scale models, so use what you like and what looks good to you.

Well, most of us who run postwar rolling stock just ignore its non-scale dimensions and pretty much go with the nominal 1/48 scaling for the rest of the layout (sometimes 1/43 for model vehicles). If you are *really* prone to obsessing about scale, though, IMHO you'd do much better to start with true scale rolling stock and track, and accessorize to match, rather than trying to rescale the rest of the layout. to match the never-attempted--to-be-true-scale rolling stock But, it's your railroad, so if it makes you happy . . .  

Many postwar Lionel trains weren't built to a specific scale.  Some, like the steam turbine, are about 1:64.  The 773 Hudson is approximately 1:48 scale.  The diesels- especially the F3, GP7, NW2, and FM TrainMaster, are close to 1:48 O scale.  Others are somewhere in between.

I happen to like the way Plasticville looks with postwar trains.  Plasticville buildings were sized for O and S gauge, approximately 1:64 with 1:48 sized doors.  The smaller footprint of its buildings lend a busy look to smaller layouts.  As others have said, it comes down to what looks good to your eye.

I am not a scale person, but I thought I would ask to get an idea of what looks best before I start investing in model buildings, cars, etc. Thank you all for your responses.  Gives me a place to start.  Bill

@Ted S posted:

Others are somewhere in between.

The General is about 1/32 - 1/36. The MTH version is even larger.

@Bill O'Neill posted:

I am not a scale person, but I thought I would ask to get an idea of what looks best before I start investing in model buildings, cars, etc. Thank you all for your responses.  Gives me a place to start.  Bill

Well, good luck with your project, but as the responses (and your measurements) have indicated, the true scale of non-scale postwar stuff is all over the place (and as alluded to by one poster, *accessories* in any 'scale' are seldom true scale either!), so I'm not very hopeful that you could easily end up with a precisely matched layout without a lot of measurements, calculations and sorting/selecting. Frankly, I've never heard of anyone trying to do so -- frankly, the closest goes in the other direction, deliberately using out-of-scale smaller scale accessories in the background of the layout to suggest perspective distance. But, your layout, your rules, and I'd be interested in seeing the results and hearing the tale if you do pursue it. Good luck, in any event!

@ADCX Rob posted:

The General is about 1/32 - 1/36. The MTH version is even larger.

I scaled the MTH version at 1:38 years ago, but, honestly, I was basing that on the assumption that Mantua’s General was accurately scaled at 1:87. (MTH clearly used the Mantua/Tyco engine as the basis for its tooling at Samhongsa in the late 1990s, even using it for catalog images ahead of production.)

But, yes, both the MTH and Lionel versions serve as an important reminder to those who just don’t seem to get it. You can’t universally scale your layout to O gauge three-rail toy trains unless you focus your collection at 1:48 models.

The best option, at least in this specific forum, is to set aside scale concerns and enjoy the variety of trains available in O gauge. At home, I run traditional-sized O gauge trains on a Halloween-themed O-27 layout featuring Lemax buildings. At the club, I run scale-sized equipment on gentle curves and 1:48 scenery. But I mix it up occasionally.

"Traditional size" is something that got established, like "OO/HO" in Great Britain.

The first iteration of "traditional size" were the 9" freight cars Lionel made just before World War II.  The cars were proportioned to the die cast steam locomotives made at the time.  The range was extended after World War II.

The first diesels - F3 and NW2 - were scale sized.   Subsequent locomotives - GP7, GP9, Train Master, EP5, Rectifier - were also scale sized (the EP5 and Rectifier were compressed from C-C to B-B configuration).

There was a second iteration of 10" freight cars starting in 1949.  And 65' (15") streamline passenger cars starting in 1952.

The result was "traditional sized" trains.

Auburn/Kusan made trains the same size as the Lionel prewar scale cars; these were later made by Kris.

True scale cars were made in the 1970s, with more types and styles being made in the 1990s.

My fallback is 1:55.  Full O scale is 1:48.  AF "S" is 1:64.  Most postwar Lionel is in between. 1:55 works for me.

On a three rail layout, which requires a suspension of reality anyway, run what you like.  Mix and match is the only practical answer.

@cbq9911a posted:

"Traditional size" is something that got established, like "OO/HO" in Great Britain.

The first iteration of "traditional size" were the 9" freight cars Lionel made just before World War II.  The cars were proportioned to the die cast steam locomotives made at the time.  The range was extended after World War II.

The first diesels - F3 and NW2 - were scale sized.   Subsequent locomotives - GP7, GP9, Train Master, EP5, Rectifier - were also scale sized (the EP5 and Rectifier were compressed from C-C to B-B configuration).

There was a second iteration of 10" freight cars starting in 1949.  And 65' (15") streamline passenger cars starting in 1952.

The result was "traditional sized" trains.

Auburn/Kusan made trains the same size as the Lionel prewar scale cars; these were later made by Kris.

True scale cars were made in the 1970s, with more types and styles being made in the 1990s.

I didn't do a complete accounting, but it sounds like the only diesels/electrics that weren't scale sized were the GG1s and FA-2s. Any others I'm missing?

OTOH, it seems like steam engines were mostly traditional sized (selectively compressed rather than 1:48 scale). I can only think of the 773 as a scale model steamer. Any others you're aware of?

Most are not any scale. They were selectively compressed. Most items the length , width and height weren’t compressed at the same ratios .

The "44-ton" switcher is grossly oversized.  Size-wise it better approximates GE's 80-ton switcher, but still a bit too big.  Likewise, the 0-4-0 steam locos are slightly oversized, more like 1:45 scale.  Despite these flaws I love them all, and I've seen them artfully woven into a convincing gestalt.