scale questions

Gilbert AF was almost always true to scale.  They never shortened engines to make them cheaper like Lionel.  The passenger cars we some shorter.  AF by Lionel is true to scale also.  Some of their newer Legacy engines are labeled scale and appointed to scale with their added detail.  

American Models is an S Gauge producer only and their stuff is to scale.  MTH took over           S Helper Service or SHS and these products are to scale.  There are also some small manufacturers of S and they address the Scale market in this gauge.    

The only really out of scale Flyer is the 0-6-0 Docksider, "Casey Jones" 4-4-0, Frontiersman 4-4-0, passenger cars and one "old timey" boxcar.  The Baldwin switcher is pretty much full scale, but the cab was elongated to accommodate the motor.  The Gilbert F9's were in a class by themselves, only vaguely resembling an EMD F Unit in size and shape.

Otherwise, everything else is 1:64 proportion, with some liberties taken in fidelity of detail depending on the piece.

Rusty

Thx guys!  It seems S stuff is easier to sort out than O!  Much less to worry about in that aspect.

I've posted these before, but I don't feel like mining the threads to find them.  Here's a couple of scalified Flyer cars for reference.  Most of the mods were minor, except for the caboose which had extensive renovations:

Rusty

Rusty,

did you have to do dimensional work or just add details to those?  if you previous postings included comparisons of like, i will take the time to go find them - i.e. a scale and a non-scale caboos, box car, etc. next to each other to see (like you did for me with the locos - that was awesome).

Thx.

Well, the tank car's end beams were shortened a little, I don't recall by how much. I did it pretty much by eye.  All these conversions were done about 28 years ago...

The caboose had a totally new underframe built and the streamlined cupola removed.  (Gilbert's bay window caboose had both bay windows and a cupola.)  But otherwise with the exception of some added details, there's no chopping and channeling of the bodies and they stand up pretty well against later stuff from the other manufacturers.  

While Gilbert Flyer had some pretty accurate paint schemes,  I also did some repaints.  These are all straight Gilbert Flyer (except for the loco, I added the smoke deflector and boiler top air thanks to match the New Haven prototype,) posed on my scale railroad:

I did locate a comparison in my archives of a Gilbert boxcar and a former S Helper Service boxcar:

Bear in mind the Gilbert boxcar is based on the Pennsy X-29 boxcar, which was a relatively small car to begin with.

Rusty

Rusty,

thx again.  I am not sure if my eye will ever get trained enough to tell differences, so if I am selective enough the AF stuff might do just fine for me providing I can make some simple changes.

To me, in the box car comparison, the one on the right 'looks right'.  I hope that is the S helper model?  But if they were not side by side I would probably never notice.  I guess it could be that I would eventually get there and 'need' to get more detailed models (or make them that way myself).

Is that how most folks end up?

Correct.  The model on the right is the S Helper model.

Rusty

Helmut, both of the boxcars are correctly scaled. The one on the left is based on a smaller prototype car. The Gilbert car on the left is an unmodified original 1954 or so car. The one on the right is a model of a different prototype and has scale couplers plus more accurate trucks and under frame. 

Tom,

Thx for that info.  It was the door 'hangers'/slider bars and trucks that look better on the S Helper car.  Well, at least to me that is what stood out.  That does not mean I would not be satisfied with AF Gilbert, at least initially.  It also comes down to good 'ole return on investment.  How much extra money does it take to get the better detailed scale models?  Can one just enjoy things with the Gilbert stuff?  I know it is case by case, just rhetorical questions.

But I have also thought of obtaining and modifying, if possible, the whimsical tinplate stuff and running that as well.

I am in my home office looking at the freight train on the loop of track on the floor. It is about ten feet away. It has original Gilbert cars, new Lionel AF cars and new MTH cars. The Gilbert cars cost me between $20 and $180, depending upon the number (3 vs 5 digit etc.) and road name. All are in like new condition. The new Lionel production were around $60 and the new MTH about the same. 

From ten feet I cannot tell the difference. If I sit down on the floor three feet away I can see a difference. The Lionel have nicer trucks and better painting. The MTH look far better including detailing. They are all scaled the same. I freely intermix them all since when the trains are running it is hard for me to tell the more detailed from the less detailed. In a static yard or shelf display the detailing becomes obvious. The good news is none of the S gauge cars look out of place on a detailed layout. 

I think your key decisions are the track and the couplers that you choose. 

hlfritz posted:

Can one just enjoy things with the Gilbert stuff? 

Yes, they can.

Rusty

Thank you guys.  I have been looking for good looking outdoor use track that will work with AF because I do not want to exclude it.  Even more reason now to ensure I do not. 

While most companies make true to scale, there is one company who did not always do S scale stuff to scale, K-Line. Some of their(K-Line) cabooses and boxcars look like 1:55th scale rather then 1:64 like AF or S Helper.

However K-Line did stay true to AF in making S gauge track, their track is just like the old AF track, only difference that I can see is K-Line stamped on the ties somewhere. I also use Gargraves track in S gauge as I am not into exact scale size for track with S gauge trains as I run them mainly for hobby and not exact detailing.

Lee Fritz

Phillyreading...about the K-line track and Gilbert track...the pins on the K-line track are bigger and do not readily fit into the Gilbert track. Try it. So you can't exactly mix and match. I've never needed to nor done it but I'm guessing you can file/grind the K-line pins to fit. 

Bill Gill posted:

Phillyreading...about the K-line track and Gilbert track...the pins on the K-line track are bigger and do not readily fit into the Gilbert track. Try it. So you can't exactly mix and match. I've never needed to nor done it but I'm guessing you can file/grind the K-line pins to fit. 

Bill, I have not had any issue with the K-Line track and original A.F. track going together, pins fit very well with no work. I use K-Line's insulating pins in S scale for my S gauge track.

Lee Fritz