schematic

Don't have what you're looking for but, just a suggestion for your next Post - perhaps this one would attract more attention if - in addition to the the word "schematic" - you also included the engine type and item number in the heading. 

Some people just won't open up and read a Post unless the heading specifically and instantly describes both the issue and the engine that it's about. Just sayin...

 Good Luck finding what you're looking for.  

I don't think Lionel have published any schematics since about 2003. I have that same engine and like it very much. What is your issue?

Rod

on the mother board there are two ,two wire (red/black )plug ins. on the second plug in, the red wire goes to the power,but i don't know where the black wire goes.it's not a ground because i can measure voltage.

thanks for your response

AC Ground normally.  The larger plugs not the molex type used for couplers and other accessories are AC power.  Some motherboards have 3 plugs.  Red center rail, black is ground.  G

when i place the the black wire to ground , it trips the circuit breaker

That can indicate there's some issue with the electronics that is causing the short circuit.  If you're talking about the Molex Micro-Fit 3.0mm connectors, they are indeed power and ground on Lionel TMCC equipment.

Pictures help a bunch when you're trying to describe issues like this.

Here is the pin assignments for that MoBo.

So if you are referring to the two Molex connectors in the upper right, the black wires should both be ground, as John said. If one shows a positive voltage something is wrong. Sounds like you need to pull the MoBo and check all pins for proper continuity.

Rod 

Here is a possibility.

This pic quality is not good, but referring to the right hand (bottom) view, you can see an electrolytic cap soldered across the hot and ground pins of the molex on the far end. If that cap is shorted, presto, voltage on the open ground wire. To test it remove the board and check continuity across the hot and ground pin. To prove if its the cap, unsolder one end and retest. If shorted, simply replace it.

Rod

I'm interpreting what he said differently.

rsymons,"on the mother board there are two ,two wire (red/black )plug ins. on the second plug in, the red wire goes to the power, but i don't know where the black wire goes. it's not a ground because i can measure voltage."
Were you referring to testing the black wire, or the connector on the board, with your meter?
If the black wire is disconnected from the plug you would see voltage on it, returning from the device receiving power, if the red wire is still connected to the board via the plug.

Dave

I pulled the cap as suggested and there is no continuity across the cap leads.there is no continuity across of any of the 3 connectors. but continuity for+ to+ to + and -to- to -? appreciate all the help

OK it sounds like the MoBo is checking out as it should. I looked at a couple of schematics for similar TMCC articulated's and typically the main power feeds wires (red & black) from the rollers connect to one Molex, then another set of red/black wires goes from a second Molex to the dcds board, to provide power for the motor driver mosfets. Where is the other end of your mystery wire connected??

Some versions of the 10D MoBo only have two black Molex connectors, not 3. Depends on the particular engine I guess.

Rod

its a black wire  paired with the red wire and i thought it went to ground. but it shorts when i ground it. when i measure voltage on the pin/wire,i get about 6-7 volts? the same as the red wire/pin?

What is it connected to besides the mobo connector?

Doing this from Memory at work!

Start, with the two motherboard jacks next to the PWM label cojack provide on his prints. The jack closet to the outside of the board.

Red, to Roller. But, this might go into a bundle where other wires connect. I know one of these is to the DCDR etc. But, if the wiring is intact. You should have a connection from the red to the roller ohmmeter.

Black Wire will Go to DCDR.

SO, I BELEIVE THIS IS YOUR MAIN TRACK POWER IN. So, Keep this wire in and disconnect the other two below. I assume you should have lighting. When power is turned on. Then turnoff power connect AC regulator connector - Short? This is most likely your issue. 

If not proceed to third connector....which, you should try on it own. Even, if you detect a short on the AC reg.

This was typed from my phone from memory. But, I think I'm right. One of the other guys here can straighten my five second response.

Gunrunner will understand my mess.

***** it appears in one of the pictures. He may have swapped the two wire connectors on the pair that are closet to each other.

Without, know the mother board. I would confirm. If he absolutely remembers where they go. Or, go by my guide. 

shawn

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second Connector - next to the one on outer edge of board.

Red - To AC Regulator board

Black to a Ac regulator board. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two pin connector stand Alone.

Both of these go off to the smoke Unit

===================================================================================

 ****** it also appears from his pictures. He may have swapped both of the wires on the two pin connectors that are close to each other. If that bundle is going back to the roller. That connector should be on the pins closet to the edge of the board.

@Rod Stewart posted:

OK it sounds like the MoBo is checking out as it should. I looked at a couple of schematics for similar TMCC articulated's and typically the main power feeds wires (red & black) from the rollers connect to one Molex, then another set of red/black wires goes from a second Molex to the dcds board, to provide power for the motor driver mosfets. Where is the other end of your mystery wire connected??

Some versions of the 10D MoBo only have two black Molex connectors, not 3. Depends on the particular engine I guess.

Rod

Stewart, You might be able to help him. After, reading my messy fast response. 

Set of two pin connectors closet to board.

One closet to outer edge

Red - to roller (may terminate with other wires via wire nut. But, should go back to roller.

Goes to the motor drive board. I assume it is getting chassis ground through the DCDR,

So, this connector appears to be track voltage.

Next 2 pin connector of the pair - inner side of board

Red and black to AG Regulator - I'm assume this engine has one.  ****this is most likely his issue . If he has a short.

Two pin connector on other side of board by itself

Red and black to smote unit.

----So, he needs to connect the first connector, I mentioned with the other two out. Then, work his way up trying the other two connector s one at a time...It is most likely the ac regulator unit. If he has issues with the first connector, He then most likely has a DCDR issue or wiring issue. If the third causes issues . The smoke unit or wring.

It appears in troubleshooting, He may have swapped the set of two pins connector next to each other. The bundle if it is the roller should be closets to the edge of the board. If that bundle goes back to the roller. It may not really matter. But, for troubleshooting, He should move them back,  

@Rod Stewart posted:

I don't think Lionel have published any schematics since about 2003. I have that same engine and like it very much. What is your issue?

Rod

There a lot more wiring diagrams on the lionel site. Then, one may think. Especially, for legacy. You just need to know where to find the stuff. I really don't want to publish a link here....I don't need to deal with another tantrum via email today! Work, is bad enough - 

the issue seems to be with the molex 4 pin connector to the  cruise commander m  j3 connector red is supposed to be power/black ground,but when they  are connected i get the short. the red goes to the power ,the black i placed to chasis ground. the other 2 wires are for the motor(blue /yellow) according to the diagram pin 1 ac input track common,(black) pin 2 ac input track hot(red)

@rsymons posted:

the issue seems to be with the molex 4 pin connector to the  cruise commander m  j3 connector red is supposed to be power/black ground,but when they  are connected i get the short. the red goes to the power ,the black i placed to chasis ground. the other 2 wires are for the motor(blue /yellow) according to the diagram pin 1 ac input track common,(black) pin 2 ac input track hot(red)

Yes, it can be the cruise board. But, you may be getting deceived. If you remove that connector. You may be removing the ground path for power. If it supplied via a pcb trace on the DCDR or that black wire jumper. Which would  remove the ground path for power which negates your testing. If you have all the two pin connectors off, Except, the one that only the black wire goes to the DCDR.

Then, it is in fact the DCDR - most likely. One set of the two pins smoke unit. The other set of two pins to AC reg. The most common failure in early engines. I also question. if you swapped one of the two sets of wires going to the motherboard. Although. that may not matter. I'm home and have a similar schematic. It appears that grounding for power s somehow at the DCDR. So, the real test is disconnect the other two like I stated, I'm home and have a similar schematic. Anyway, If you had the wires to the smoke and AC Reg unit to the smoke unit disconnected. Then, as above DCDR!

The engine had odyssey with TMCC? I would replaces with ERR. I think the cruise M. Much, smoother performance.

@rsymons posted:

the issue seems to be with the molex 4 pin connector to the  cruise commander m  j3 connector red is supposed to be power/black ground,but when they  are connected i get the short. the red goes to the power ,the black i placed to chasis ground. the other 2 wires are for the motor(blue /yellow) according to the diagram pin 1 ac input track common,(black) pin 2 ac input track hot(red)

I emailed a similar schematic.! Just, got home.