Seaboard Air Line Motorcar 2028

Very cool project; please update as you proceed finishing it.

Will do Martin, and take lots of photos!!!

Wanta see that.  It looks like some of the critters the Rock Island did in its shops in Horton, Kansas, and several other railroads'  creations.

colorado hirailer posted:

Wanta see that.  It looks like some of the critters the Rock Island did in its shops in Horton, Kansas, and several other railroads'  creations.

Apparently there were a number of RRs that had similar cars, when I Googled it I saw a couple down south, Georgia and Florida for 1. I want to say ACF was the builder.

Bob Delbridge posted:

Will do Martin, and take lots of photos!!!

RS3 trucks......are those what was really under this or is that just convenience on your part?  If the latter, what is needed?

Martin,I need to check but they sure look like RS3 trucks.  However, the drawing I have shows the front truck with an 8' wheel base and the rear truck with a 6'-6" wheelbase.  Also read that later on the rear truck was replaced

With only my left eye having cataract surgery (dang virus) I can't make out the notes on the drawing to see what type of trucks were used.  I make out maybe made by GSC, front wheels were 40" and rear were 36".  Having said that, convenience is ruling what trucks I use, unless I find something else.  I don't know if both trucks were powered or just the front.

I think a lot of the motor cars used trucks more like Interurban trucks.    Walthers may have made some when they still did trucks.     Scale City Designs got most of the molds for the older trucks from Keil and may still make them.

I have a Sunset Brill 350 PRR Motor car and it has two different trucks also.   The front  one being longer.    It seems the look lighter weight than weaver alco trucks.     However, convenience is an important factor.

Front wheelbase being longer may also correlate to that being the powered truck and able to accommodate the motors; not an uncommon practice with such cars.

If you can locate a better picture, I can look through my boxes of  supplies to see if I have any sideframes that could work.

I did find out the Weaver trucks are 9' wheelbase, but my MTH RS3 and NW2 use 8' wheelbase.  Might have to use the NW2 trucks, a while back I noticed the underframe/chassis had a bend in it and when I tried to flatten it it broke.  I fixed it but don't feel it'll hold up for long.  I may retire it and use the trucks for the motorcar.

The ACL/SAL Historical Society magazine Lines South has had a few articles on these cars so now I'm doing my research.

2027 and 2028 were actually built by St. Louis Car Company, not ACF.

Bob,

Since it’s purple, why not letter it ACL. LOL😁

Ironic you would do it in the rival color. May take a lot of paint to hide the molded color.

I hope you know I am just kidding.

I actually scratch built one of these before 3D printing, 30 years ago, and I painted it in the citrus scheme. A labor of love.

Leon

Leon, I thought the same thing! ACL would look cool in silver and purple.

Bob,

I might get thrown out of the ACL SAL Historical Society for even suggesting it.

We need to keep this quiet. It would make a fine looking model 

.Looking forward to your progress.

Leon

That is a problem that plagues modeling these cars, from McKeens on: different size trucks, if even available.

I know this sounds extreme and all, but couldn't you just make a truck with the proper wheelbase? and then make cosmetic sideframes? Somewhere in the antediluvian past such has been accomplished.
No doubt, if you use an existing truck whose wheelbase if off by 6 scale inches there will be someone to shoot our their lips and laugh you to scorn.

rex desilets posted:

but couldn't you just make a truck.

Rex, LOL!  I'm somewhat good but I ain't that good, especially without a mini-mill.

Once I get the shell from Zach then I'll see what my options are.

Bob Delbridge posted:

rex desilets posted:

but couldn't you just make a truck.

Rex, LOL!  I'm somewhat good but I ain't that good, especially without a mini-mill.

Once I get the shell from Zach then I'll see what my options are.

These show up on ebay from time to time:

You can do this!

What are they?!?!?! Who makes them? Can the wheel centers be changed??  How much $$$???

Very nice!  A couple of sources listed St. Louis Car Company as the builder.  I think these had eight cylinder electromotive engines.  The SAL cars are somewhat similar (at least in appearance) to the ones St. Louis Car Company built for Southern railway.  The Southern units had Fairbanks Morse engines.

Bob Delbridge posted:

What are they?!?!?! Who makes them? Can the wheel centers be changed??  How much $$$???

Overland. Bill Davis has 'em:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Overl...1:g:RaAAAOSw2gxYuxMe

Thanks Rex!

From Lines South 1st Qtr 2002 -  Built and delivered by St. Louis Car Co. in 1936, 2027 and 2028 had a 600Hp Winton engine supplied by EMC.

Only the larger, front truck was powered.  In 1948 2028 was repowered with a EMD prime mover 567A, 6-cylinder 600Hp diesel.

Neat project.  I know of one of these projects going on in HO Scale.  Have been considering one of these for an O Scale project as well with the Sarasota to Tampa connection.  As far as the streamlined SAL Pacifics, I'm hoping Scott/3rd Rail will take these on some day as with the articulateds.  

Railthunder posted:

Neat project.  I know of one of these projects going on in HO Scale.  Have been considering one of these for an O Scale project as well with the Sarasota to Tampa connection.  As far as the streamlined SAL Pacifics, I'm hoping Scott/3rd Rail will take these on some day as with the articulateds.  

I don't know...that means I would have to spend more $$$

Seaboard had some oddball equipment, 3D printing seems to be the way to get it made at a good cost.  Problem is finding appropriate drawings.  I've discussed with Zach about 3D printing the B-7, AF-1, and AF-2 Turtleback (round roof) boxcars but can't find any blueprints to send him...yet.

What the drawing says is the trucks were General Steel Industries, probably type Commonwealth, with 6 1/2 X 12 Timken roller bearings on the front and 5 1/2 X 10 plain bearings on the rear. The front truck was changed in 1959.    It says the replacement front truck came from a class 1600.  I have no idea what a 1600 class is, but my guess is it is a diesel locomotive.  The traction motors were GE 752, which were used in diesel locomotives.   The front truck was larger than what would have been used in an interurban car. The rear truck was probably something that would have been found in a suburban car. 

Found more data on the 2027 and 2028.

From Lines South, December 1985: page 4 says the front truck was replaced with a "Type B road truck and a power plant from a switch engine..  The truck was not made for the 2028 and gave the unit a nose up attitude.".

AAR type B. Commonly found under early Alco units

Thanks Chris!  Now to find some 8'-0" and 6'-6" sideframes.  The Weaver/P&D trucks can be be used on both due to the way they're made, but the rear wheels would still be smaller than the front unless I can also find replacements for those.

My 3D printed SAL motorcar should arrive tomorrow!

David Johnston posted:

It says the replacement front truck came from a class 1600.  I have no idea what a 1600 class is, but my guess is it is a diesel locomotive.

Seaboard RS3 were numbered 1600-1691, good to know thanks!  The trucks on my RailKing RS3 and NW2 are the same so if I decide to use them from the NW2 I should be OK, at least on the front.

The Weaver trucks are 1ft too long, but I can swap out wheel sets and use the 2-rail wheels I've had in a box for a few years.

Bob, to my knowledge the Weaver type B sideframe is correct at an 8’ wheelbase. Which is good for the updated front truck. For the shorter/lighter rear truck perhaps that shorter RK sideframe May suffice.

Or you could search out the rear truck NJ custom brass used on their rail cars. A commonwealth design I believe 

Thanks Chris, I'll measure it again.

Got the shell yesterday, very nice job Zach did printing this 3D model.  It needs a horn and handgrabs (the holes are already there).

I'm deciding on what to do about the floor, if I mount it where I think he made supports for a floor the Weaver trucks make it ride high.  If I place the floor on the opposite side of the supports it makes them too low and they hit the shell.  a 3/16" spacer (or bolster!) might do the trick.

By the way, I sent him as much as I could find on the Seaboard Turtleback boxcars, single and double-door.  Not sure if or when he'll give it a go but he said he would try.  No promises but if I see anything I'll give a report.

I have to correct myself:

The AAR Type B truck has a 9'-4" or 9'-10"wheelbase. depending on which traction motors were used. The Weaver would be 9' or so. You were correct.

The AAR Type A truck has an 8' wheelbase. The type A was found under EMD SW units, among others.

Sorry for the error.

How much interest would there be to have Scott make a run of these in brass ? 

Bob Delbridge posted:

On the S-CL Modeler forum someone posted about a guy that was offering the shell for the motorcar in HO and S scale.  I contacted him to see if he would/could do one in O-scale.  Here's what he sent me last night:

He said he was low on white filament but had plenty of purple so i asked him to make it all in purple.  He had to make it in pieces then join them together, when I enlarge the photo I can't see anything but fine details. It should be approximately 18" long.

He said he would ship it out next week so I hope to see it soon.  I'll be using the trucks off my old Weaver RS3 and need to make a floor, underframe, and interior, plus a few other details.

I only know of one other O-scale model built,  scratchbuilt by one of the members at the Hamlet Railroad Museum.

This will make a fine addition to my collection.  I'm also going to see if he is willing to do the streamlined Pacifics Seaboard had, maybe to put on the kinda new Williams by Bachmann 4-6-2:

Here's what 2028 looked like in service:

I think they had 2 of these streamlined locomotives.Very cool looking locomotives.

Same here Chris!  I thought the trucks/sideframes on my RailKing RS3 were the same as on my NW2, but they're not.

marty track, I doubt he could get 25 orders, but I'm sure they would look great.  If it's not PRR, NYC, UP, ATSF the masses don't even look.  Plus at the price 3rd Rail would have to charge, at least for me there's other things I'd like to spend my $$$ on at this time.  Even with just the shell, the small amount of time and money I'm spending on this is minimal and projects like this are fun to me.  With that said, give 3rd Rail a shout and see what happens, they'll either say yea or nay.  Anything done correct and in Seaboard colors is great!  I'd sure like to see one in SAL Citrus colors with the green roof (not yellow).

seaboardM2, yep only 2, numbers 2027 and 2028.  They were designed to pull regular passenger cars and not the coaches typically found behind doodlebug types.  2027 I believe was off the roster by 1957 or so and 2028 lasted until Amtrak in 1971(?).

I hope Zach can continue with his 3D printing line, I have many more ideas to run by him!

If ACF was the builder, and other roads' cars were ACF, and similar enough, maybe  Scott could conjure a marketable quantity out of them.  I did discover his PA. doodlebug had close relatives on other roads, IF l wanted to bash one of them.

I'm going to retract what I said about cost from 3rd Rail.

So I get the 3D printed shell (only).  Then I have to make a floor, buy a drive system, buy a control system (BPRC in my case), various bits and pieces (horns, grabs, windshield wipers, screen for the front, etc), paint, and HOPEFULLY find some decals.  Now I've added maybe another $200-300 on the project plus time spent.  IF I can find decals then I'm set, but if not...

Now I'm looking at $500 to make this model if I have to buy everything and not recycle parts.  If 3rd Rail could build this for what an E-unit is going for then it would be a deal.  Wish I could get one without a command control system built in, all I need is a motor and drive train.

I haven't even looked to see if I have a decal set or 2, but I have feelers out for some old commercial sets.  If I don't then I may have to make a set.  Somehow I have to come up with an 18"yellow and orange stripe for both sides of the shell.  I've made them in the past but don't like doing it, never can get the color like I want it.  I'm sure it's me, all I need to do is learn my printer.

I'm still building this 3D printed unit, I can't get over that it's been made at all, printed no less,  and a very good model at that. Simply amazing.

Need some help IDing what I need to outfit the inside of the cab.  Here's photos of a model built by Sam Hill down in Hamlet NC and what he used/made:

Here's the only photo I have of the actual interior:

Looks like Sammy had nothing to go by when he did his, plus the seat appears to be folded and w/o armrests.

Any idea what PSC parts I need to represent what is shown?  There was no fireman from what I've read, so other than maybe a seat, I don't know if there were any controls at all on the other side of the cab, I kinda doubt it.

Can't make out if all those controls are mounted on a single "L-shaped" stand or what.  Looks like a bank of circuit breakers on the left, past those 1 large and 2 small handles, then a bank of dial indicators, then a single handle on the right (with a vertical handle, horn?) and then another handle just in front of the seat.

Based on the black and white photograph here is what I see.  Directly in front of the engineer is the automatic brake valve, maybe schedule 6ET or 14EL.  Next item on the right with handle pointing up is the sanding valve.  Behind that is the independent brake valve.  On the window post is a round hand wheel for the windshield wiper valve and the verticals cord is connected to the whistle valve. The horizontal cylinder at the bottom of the windshield is a gauge light. Below that I see 5 gauges and meters. Probably volts, amps, rpm,  main reservoir, equalizing reservoir, brake pipe, straight air reservoir, and brake cylinder. Some of the gauges have two needles and read two different pressures. On the left side there is a vertices row of knobs.  These are switches for different electrical devices, probably mostly lighting. Just forward of the switches is a GE type C controller. This would have controlled the electrical equipment associated with forward and reverse and acceleration.  The two large levers above that must be engine controls.  The lower lever is the throttle and the upper one might be timing. 

On the type C controller the rear handle is forward, reverse, and centered is off.  The forward handle is speed control.  That handle appears to have a deadman button on it.  Any time the power is on that button has to be held down or the power will drop out, and maybe it is also tied to the air brakes.  This explains why the engine control levers are so long.  The operator has to reach across with right hand to control engine speed and power while controlling the electrical output with his left hand.  It would be like dealing with the gas and clutch with both of your feet in an auto.

There would have been another control panel near the engine with the start and stop controls. On the other side of the cab there would have been an air brake emergency valve and maybe an emergency fuel cutoff valve.

That is my best guess.

Thanks David, I think you're guesswork is pretty accurate!

Now to find the PSC parts!!!

OK...so whose doing vacuum-forming around here?!?!?!

Ran into a bit of an issue, the top "grille" on the nose of the unit:

It appears to be bars/tubing welded together to make the grille.  I've been trying to make it using .020 brass wire, soldered together.

I made the drivers side and it came out fairly good:

pieces are straight at lest, but when I tried to make the other side oh-boy! looks like spaghetti.  Yesterday I tried making them as 1-piece to be bent/cut after assembly, that's not working so hot either, can't keep it together when I try to contour it to the model.

So then it hit me, why not take some clear styrene, draw the bars/tubing on it with permanent ink, then put it in place.  Problem is the plastic is flat and the place it has to go is not.

A vacuum-forming machine would make quick work of this if I had a master to lay the plastic on and a machine.  I have neither.

So right now I'm thinking maybe heating a piece of clear styrene by placing it in a cup of boiling water then placing the styrene in something that is basically the same shape as the model.  I found a ladle that should work and even a glass globe ornament that fits perfectly inside the ladle.  I heated 2 cups of water in the microwave for 1-1/4 minutes then put the styrene in the water, along with the ladle to heat them up.   I laid the styrene in the ladle and placed the globe inside to help it conform.  So far it has taken a shape, but not 100%.  Of course I have to see if I can darw the "bars" on the styrene first or if I need to do it after I bend it (harder to do).

I'm surprised I haven't seen more about vacuum-forming!