Seeking Command Control for small locomotives

Allan, the K-Line Porter is somewhat of a PITA to add command do.  I ended up finding a little coal car to carry the electronics.  I still didn't have room for sound, but I did have chuffing smoke and command control.

K-Line Porter TMCC Conversion Project

For the Dockside switcher, I'd consider plopping that shell on the upcoming LC+ 2.0 Dockside model with TMCC, I suspect they'll be very similar shells.  That would probably be cheaper and yield a better result than hacking this one to get command.  With the feature set of the LC+ 2.0 model, you have pretty much everything you could want in the upgrade.

The K-Line US Army A-5 could probably get a more traditional upgrade.  Of course, that's another one that I'd be tempted to start with the TMCC version of the A-5 and swap shells to get to the finish line.

I know that Lionel 0-4-0 is a reissue if the postwar type that used the spur gear drive. There are many people who state the operation will still be very jackrabbit even with the added of CC. That’s pretty much for any Lionel engines with the smaller can motor installed. So, be forewarned.

Mikado 4501 posted:

I know that Lionel 0-4-0 is a reissue if the postwar type that used the spur gear drive. There are many people who state the operation will still be very jackrabbit even with the added of CC. That’s pretty much for any Lionel engines with the smaller can motor installed. So, be forewarned.

I put a Cruise Commander in a Lionel can-motored 0-4-0. It does not match the latest "creepy" locos, but runs well as a switcher and is definitely not a "jackrabbit". I also added remote couplers front and rear (added a separate small tether for the front one; used the original tether for AC/DC power transmission). No sound. I have seen it done - but tight. 

I like it a lot - always liked the realistic-ish look of the Lionel 0-4-0. 

Regarding the Lionel Army 0-4-0... I think the little motor in these has only three poles.  Especially when new, they are subject to cogging.  Sometimes you can feel the armature poles "stick" as you turn the drive wheels by hand.  If so, the ERR Cruise Commander will struggle to deliver smooth slow-speed operation.  Perhaps over time the permanent magnets weaken, because the "stickiness" seems to be less noticeable on older locos with more run time.  The 0-4-0 uses the same motor and chassis as the Scout, so I offer the following:

Lionel's part number for this walnut-sized Mabuchi motor was xx-8008-x, and it had been in use for almost 30 years.  Then about eight or nine years ago I saw a steam loco from one of Lionel's "NASCAR" sets, with the shiny chrome paint job, etc., at York.  It had this same drivetrain, but the motor had a YELLOW nylon end bell, and two capacitors visible on the brushplate side.  I have no idea if the yellow motor is better or has more poles than the 8008 motor.  It would be an easy swap so I'm curious to try it.  But I can't find an exploded diagram for the NASCAR steamer, nor a part number for the motor with the yellow end bell on Lionel's website.  Hmph!

Fast forward another year or two and the Peanuts Halloween loco appeared.  I think it was the first "Scout"-type loco with LionChief control.  Still spur-gear-drive, and what looks like the same motor that's been around since 1982.  But... Lionel changed the mounting plate, AND enlarged the intermediate cluster gear to give a lower gear ratio.  Perhaps as much as 33% lower.  Progress!  Looking at lionelsupport.com, I don't think this improved gearing has been applied to the switcher, yet.  But you might be able to swap in the LC motor, mount, and larger gear if you can obtain the parts from Lionel, or from a donor loco.  IMO, the new gears would go a long way toward slowing down this jackrabbit, and provide smoother performance.

These incremental improvements are encouraging, but I would like to see Lionel bolt the four-wheel worm gear drive mechanism from the latest "Percy" under the Scout boiler shell.  Percy uses the same wheels, and it looks like it would fit.  Even better, they could adapt the chassis, motor, and flywheel from the Legacy Atlantic!  30:1 or bust!!  A lot of us started with a Scout-type loco in our first train set.  Why should the Berkshire be the only Postwar style loco to get a full engineering upgrade to LC+?  A "premium" four-wheel motor chassis that bolts in place of the original would support my proposal for an MPC Celebration Series.  So how about it Lionel!?

Getting back to your Army switcher, the upgrades I mentioned above will help. But IMO you're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and it's always better to start with silk.  The K-Line A5 is a newer, better design.  And the MTH Premier 0-4-0 is in a different league!  I would look for some bargains before I invest $200 in this goat.  My $.02.

"It's the gear ratio, Brian.  It always has been the gear ratio."

I appreciate the feedback. As I noted in my original post, I wasn't sure if such an upgrade would be possible or practical, and it appears that it is not. No big deal, because I have a good number of Army locomotives--not quite as many steam as diesel, but more than enough to handle my needs, with another one on preorder for later this year.

Obviously a whole lot easier and less costly to just purchase one or more new MTH or Lionel small steam locomotives and give them a set of new decals. The three pictured can either go on static display somewhere on the layout or be sold to someone who wants/needs a bit of conventional motive power. All three are new or virtually new.

Possible, yes.  Practical, that's in the eyes of the beholder.

JonZ at ERR (Now 3rd Rail) a number of years ago had a specific Cruise Commander lite board for the Docksider engines.  It even had a mounting for the cab figures.  Ran really nice, unfortunately finding one would be extremely difficult.  I have one still running.  Whistle did stick on sometimes.

I shudder at even attempting the Porter!  Micro Commander would be about the only option - not worth it.

Jim 

Allan,  the old LCRU2 boards will fit in that slope back tender so pretty sure an AC commander will also.  No room for sound using Lionel boards however a sound commander may possibly fit with the AC commander. however you can add coil couplers at both ends. OR, does that loco have a DC motor ?   If so I bet ERR boards and a flat speaker could fit in the slope back tender.   I have upgraded two 18000 PRR B6.  I put a Mabuchi motor and ERR boards in the first one and took it over to my brothers house to try it out. He thinks it's his now.  So to get it back I started a second one trying to just use stuff from my parts bin. I installed an LCRU2 in it's boiler and have a RS 2.5 board in the tender. I had it running with fan smoke and sound except I used the hall sensor in the tender for chuff timing.  This week I decided to try and trigger the chuff from the magnets on the driver wheel that time the smoke puffs. However I cannot use the same reed switch that times the puffs so I'm trying to fit a second reed switch on the thing.  This thing has become some sort of obsessive PITA would have been far easier to buy new ERR boards to start with.          j

I was able to get TMCC with sound in one of the 1615 remake tenders but those ERR components haven't been made in years. I used a Beep commander and sound commander. Even had working couplers using post war trucks with coil couplers.  It all fit along with a speaker. Built for a friend.

Pete

One thing for the ERR commander series is to use custom heatsinks to change their profile.  I also took the full Cruise Commander and replaced the FET's with a shorter version and used thermal adhesive to glue a low profile heatsink to them.  This drops the profile some and allows it to fit in places the full sized version won't fit.

The Lionel switchers are or will be coming out in LionChief 2.0+.  That means they can accept TMCC commands.  A Cab1, Cab2, or MTH's system with Lionel interface will operate them.  At this point, upgrading and nre are not that different in terms of price point....

I upgraded my Lionel 0-6-0 Dockside with DCC.  It runs and sounds great now.  If the other 2 locomotives also have DC can motors in them then they will all accept DCC upgrades.  That is the path I have started walking for the command control of my conventional locomotives.  My layout is wired for TMCC/Legacy or DCC.  Although you can run DCC and Legacy at the same time, with loss of remote couplers on most Legacy locomotives, but I would not recommend it for most people, so I will have mine switchable between the two.

So if you are looking to keep with TMCC or PS3, then the above posts apply.  If you are willing to try something new, then DCC will fit the bill.