Setup of Dual Track Signal Bridge

Your Lockons are clipped to the un-insulated sides of your insulated track sections, you have no connections to your insulated trigger rails.

Thanks again Rob.  The lockons are on the un-insulated side but have plastic pins at both ends of the three sections of track.  So the lock on side, with plastic pins on both ends of the block, is the red light side.  The green light lines go directly to my accessory transformer.  My understanding of this signal's set up is that when the train hits the insulated line (the green light side) it then connects/jumps to the opposite side and grabs the opposite common rail (and red light hookup) and goes back to green when the train is out of the zone.  Is that logic correct?  What am I missing?

Thanks,   Fred

The Lockons, pins, & insulation all have to be on the same side.

Even though you have inserted insulating pins in the rail, it still is electrically continuous with the metal ties, which are, in turn, connected to the other rails.

You can prove this by using your VOM and looking for continuity from your (assumed) insulated outside rail to other track returns. It's always advisable, before declaring surrender, to get out the old meter and do some checking.

Made the changes but it did not work.  The lights are red and stay red when the train goes through the insulated track zone.  The above might be the conventional post war set up but this K-Line signal I has has some newer electronic setup.  And I'm certain I did not set it up the way you suggest last year because I numbered all the tracks when I took it down last year and I did not have the rails insulated on the same side as the pins.     Unfortunately K-Lines instructions are not helpful.  Let me know if you have any other thoughts.  

Thank you.  Fred

Getting a bit closer.  I put insulation pins on the opposite outside rail to see the effect.  Now when I power on I have green lights as I should and when I run the train into the two section block they turn red but the train stops halfway through the block.  Any idea what might be causing it to stop?  

Fred

I should have said, added insulation pins on the opposite side.  I did not remove the pins from the side where the lockons are attached.  

Fred

@Fred O. posted:

...added insulation pins on the opposite side.  I did not remove the pins from the side where the lockons are attached.

This is why the train stopped.

Scan the instructions and post here so we can see what you are working with.

The K-Line 6-22329 shown in the photo is a bit unusual. It has two power wires and one wire that controls both bulbs; there is a tiny circuit board in each lamp head to eliminate the need for a relay. I understand that there were a couple versions, but, at least in the version I have, you can connect the control wire to either hot or ground to change the lamp state. It is also very sensitive, if you hook it up to an insulated rail and lay a sweaty hand on the track the signal will change. As a practical matter, this means that you cannot share the insulated rail with any other accessory the way you can with typical postwar stuff. I would install this signal strictly according to the instructions.

There was a thread on here years ago, Stan2004 and I took one apart and had a discussion about the circuit.

@PLCProf posted:

There was a thread on here years ago, Stan2004 and I took one apart and had a discussion about the circuit.

https://ogrforum.com/...59#83790477390809959

All:  Thanks for all your responses.  

I took the additional pins out I had yesterday and I'm back to all red lights with no change to the lights when the train goes through the block.  I attached the instructions provided by K-line and my current track set up.  Both track lines are identical.  

The model I have is the 6-22329.  

Thank you again.  

Fred

I should have put in my diagram that the hot green wires go to the accessory transformer and the hot reds go to the lockons.  

Thanks

Does this manual apply to your bridge?

Thanks for the references but I am miles from being able to decipher the information in the old posts.  Despite my years of setting up Lionel, I would not pass an electronics 101 course.  I've attached a more complete rendition of my set up.  Would be grateful if someone could direct me how to change the line hookups, insulation and pins to get this to work.  The frustrating part is that last year I had no problem with plastic pins on the lock-on side and the opposite rail insulated.  

Thank you!

Rob:

Yes, that is my manual.  

This follows the manual instructions exactly as per the numbered clips, not necessarily your red/green notes(although, those may be right).

I simply had moved the insulation from one side of the track to the other as you had suggested but forgot to move it on the other set of tracks.  Thanks very much for your time.

Fred

just $.02 worth; is the accessory transformer grounded with the track transformer and are the power plugs phased with the track transformer? I've had many similar forehead slappers over the years involving grounding and phasing. all the best

@CMac posted:

just $.02 worth; is the accessory transformer grounded with the track transformer and are the power plugs phased with the track transformer? I've had many similar forehead slappers over the years involving grounding and phasing. all the best

As long as the center rail power doesn't get intermixed(it doesn't on this accessory), phasing is not required. This diagram shows the grounding connection at the lower right, to the second, bottom Lockon.

Thought we had it, but it isn’t over till it’s over.  After making the track fix, one track lit red with no train in the block and and the other signal no light at all.  I disconnected the lock-on for the line that was not lit at all.  That caused the other line to light green and change to red when the train passed.  Seemingly something is wrong only with the other line.  Some of the insulation on the track that’s not lighting looked suspect to I changed it, but no change in the lighting.  Both trains run fine all the way around their circuit.  There are no other accessories connected within the block.  

Since one signal is perfect without the partner lock-on connected it is probably something real dumb which I have a propensity for.  

Will keep checking.  Let me know if can think of anything to check.  

Thank you.

Fred

CMac:

The accessory transformer is on the same electrical line as the track transformer, so I guess they are grounded together.  Not sure what plug phasing is, do can't answer.  

Fred

@Fred O. posted:

I guess they are grounded together...

Floating ground. Use the second Lockon in my diagram to establish a distinct ground.

Rob:

Thanks for your patience with this problem.  

I put the additional lock-on within the two blocks and added ground wires which I took to the common line pole on the accessory transformer as you suggested with no connection for the lock-on hot connection  There was no change in the signals after the change.   I did find a loose connection so that now both lines have the same status, that is, when you power up the lights are red and there is no change on either line when I roll a caboose through the block.

I've attached a new photo.  

Thank you.  

Follow-up to my earlier email, I have not figured it out yet, but I may have a clue from which you might be able to be interpret the issue.  I hooked up both the 145 Gateman and the 252 Crossing Gate using 145C track connectors.  I've been hooking those up for years.  Both are tied to the same accessory transformer.   As soon as you power on they activate rather than wait for the pressure of the track with the trains passing being the trigger.  I double checked the wiring on both and believe they are correct.  

Let me know if that tells you anything.  

Thank you.     Fred