Shipping is EXPENSIVE these days.

Considering I had to pay $52 for a box the size of a VHS to the UK not long ago, I’d have to agree shipping is getting ridiculously high now.

I can't believe the $700+ to Canada. Something else is in that shipping price.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

I can't believe the $700+ to Canada. Something else is in that shipping price.

Huge profits?

It could be a typo, but I did find it amusing!

GunRunnerJohn now providing free shipping to the Congo on all his electronic gizmos - some limitations may apply.

Possibly a typo that is one decimal point off?

I'll still happily pay the freight for all your overstock John! 

I had to pay $34.00 to get a 16# steam locomotive shipped to me from west Virginia to Indiana. Shipping is outrageous these days.

Tariffs?

Huge shipping fees on top of 18% buyers premium, Trainz has lost its shininess

Tariffs, please. High shipping is a result of all the free shipping big customers do like Amazon, they get a big price break, you pay double or more when you need to ship. The last few years have gotten real bad, most $20 items are not worth shipping, throw them away.

I once won four items from Trainz; it was cheaper for me to drive to Atlanta and pickup the stuff in person. The GA sales tax was far, far less than the shipping would have been and the gas used when totaled with the tax still came out less than Trainz's posted shipping. An added plus: I got out and had an enjoyable trip.

Trainz is horrible because they use FED-EX and over charge on average 6 bucks more than USPS P-Mail.

For me, it can take 6 days to go from Atlanta to Nashville, one state away with them. Fed-Ex hands off items to the P.O. and they travel all over the place before arriving at the door.

Shipping by others is high because they don’t know what they are doing and just guess at it. I buy from people who actually calculate it and charge me fairly as I do to them. Save several bucks shipping from your PC.

Some say they charge S&H.  Dummies don't know free USPS boxes can be shipped to any location in lots with a few key presses on the PC.

Most 2lb cars e.o.m. should be under 10 bucks to ship on average using USPS P. mail. It starts to get a bit pricy over 4 lbs and on engines.

I always try to take advantage of the free shipping offers from train vendors and Ebay sellers otherwise it is ridiculous, especially after sales tax is applied.  I love Mr. Muffins Trains and buy often from him because the store is about an hour away from home. He offers free shipping as well but the 7% Indiana tax often kills the deal as the postage from Nick Smith, Trainworld or Chuck Ro is less than the tax, especially on Legacy or MTH Premier items. $15 shipping on a $1000 locomotive is reasonable but astronomical for a $40 freight car. 

I don't know how some of these vendors offer free shipping at some of the prices the have.  Some of them have to be taking a bath when offering free shipping.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd like to hear the reasoning for this.   I happened to be looking at something on Trainz, and I noticed their shipping charges!  YIKES, it costs more than a couple of Legacy diesels to ship one unit!

I have to believe there's a story here.

I would guess a typo. Sure does not cost more to ship to Canada than Asia per their schedule.

   Bill T.

5 years ago my standard padded envelope I ship my decals in was 99 cents to ship. Today the same envelope under 2 oz is $3. WHY???

If the Trainz shipping is really what they charge for shipping outside USA...maybe twofold:

They don't want to ship outside USA

With new credit card charge back rules they may need to prove delivery with signature....which is very expensive outside USA.....maybe not $700...

MartyE posted:

I don't know how some of these vendors offer free shipping at some of the prices the have.  Some of them have to be taking a bath when offering free shipping.

Working for a small business that ships a lot, and talking to the shipping company reps.  There is big time volume discounts from Fedex, UPS.  More you ship the cheaper it gets.

Shipping has turned into a profit center for many sellers.  Advertise a product at a lower price and make it up double on shipping.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

I can't believe the $700+ to Canada. Something else is in that shipping price.

Huge profits?

It could be a typo, but I did find it amusing!

I bought an engine and passenger car set from a man in Canada for a price shipping included. He had it packaged and shipped from a UPS store. He told me later that the cost wound up being about $180. He was shocked and so was I!!! I think he got ripped off, never heard of shipping being that expensive! 
Who knows what evil lurks...

I deal with a gun shop in Texas that ships any firearm for $7.99...they must ship a LOT of firearms!!! And I get it within 2-3 days

I'm glad I've (almost) come to the end of my train purchases.  Got more than I can use at any one time and there's nothing out that I want.  Once my GGD Silver Meteor set arrives that may do it for me.   Of course if they offer an ACL passenger train, I may have to reconsider

My brother owns a business and Fedex gave them a 50% discount on shipping so Trainz is making a killing.  Trainz is charging a handling fee and doing a lousy job at the handeling part.

RRaddict2 posted:

My brother owns a business and Fedex gave them a 50% discount on shipping so Trainz is making a killing.  Trainz is charging a handling fee and doing a lousy job at the handeling part.

I suspect that Gunrunnerjohn is trying to have a little fun with us on the obvious error on Trainz.

In my experience with them,  I have had six invoices from them this year, just about all of them had multiple purchases.  The last one, I won 6 items, the shipping charges were $31.23, so the average cost was $5.20 per item. They compute the shipping charges by taking the item with the highest charge and then add the "with combined" costs with the other items (Usually less that $3, but depends in the item, some things do not have a lower combined price, usually those are for set boxes).

You do need to factor in the  buyers premium.

THe items come in new boxes and  are carefully packed.  THey don't use that popcorn crap, but packing paper, which makes it easy for my to recycle.  

As SIRT mentions, they use FED-EX, which I think does a fantasctic job delivering packages. 

Lastly, when I have had a issue with an item, I have been able to get a satisfactory response from Trainz. 

This is my last invoice.   All in, my average cost per item was about $24.  I know a lot of you guys would not pay 2 cents for this stuff, but that's what makes this a fun hobby.

==================================================================
Total : USD 95.41
Shipping : USD 31.23
Buyer's Premium: USD 17.17
Dash Fee: USD 3
Adjustment : USD 0
Grand Total : USD 146.81

Guy's...shipping is out of control....FYI a padded envelope is now considered a package by the PO even if it contains documents only...Just cost me $12.50 to send a sweat shirt to Cal....Great deals on the forum....lousy deals on shipping.....

Shipping has always been expensive and folk have always been terribly cheap - all you're seeing is the crash as the intersection of the two conditions.

All my dealings with Trainz has been A+..... just FYI  so as not to beat up on just them.....

If I buy anything from Trainz I usually try to buy at least 2 items and make sure I can combine the shipping. That way at least the average shipping cost per item comes down and I can justify the cost.

I buy and sell here on OGR.  Shipping charges are high compared to preowned train prices.  I recently shipped 2 diesel locos from NH to Ohio via USPS ground for $54 including $500 insurance. Also shipped a $21 gondola from NH to PA via USPS  for $13 (on line estimate was $10.68).   Post Office told me that my scale was off......NOT!  I've passed on buying something that I wanted here on the forum because shipping put it over the edge.  I take advantage of FREE shipping from Train Vendors like the Muffins or Model Train Stuff.  Since Brentwood Antiques closed its brick & mortar shop, my closest hobby shop is Charlie Ro about an hour & I get to enjoy paying  MA sales tax.  NH has no sales tax.

I have noticed an increase lately, myself. Some charges have made me skip the item. 

Strangely, based on several comments above, I have never found Trainz to typically be high on s/h; just the opposite, in fact. There have been exceptions. I have a bid in with them right now on a 3RO steamer (not a huge one, but still) and the s/h is under $20. Still high, but not enough to put me off. 

I only pay the high s/h if the price is low, of course. And it annoys me, then. 

But, my big shopping period is over, so I'm not much affected by it. 

I saw an item the other day (from Trainz, actually, I think) where the s/h was $10.00 or so - and $2.00 "shipping" for local pickup. How does that work? 

The total price I pay for any item includes the shipping cost if there was one.

If the cost of the item including the shipping cost is more than what the item is worth, I will not buy it.

Notwithstanding the ludicrous $700 charges above . . . .

This is REAL simple.

If the shipping cost + price is equal to or less than what you are willing to pay, buy the item.

If the shipping cost + price is more than what you are willing to pay, do NOT buy the item.

What does it matter which line item the cost is applied to?

USPS counter prices are higher than On Line prices which are in turn higher than PayPal shipping.  If you have a PayPal account you can print your labels online for nearly half of USPS counter prices. Hopefully link below will get you there as it is hard to find the shipping page on the PP site.  j

https://www.paypal.com/shiplabel/create/

joe krasko posted:

Guy's...shipping is out of control....FYI a padded envelope is now considered a package by the PO even if it contains documents only...Just cost me $12.50 to send a sweat shirt to Cal....Great deals on the forum....lousy deals on shipping.....

On the flip side, we now can ship a package for the cost of a padded envelope. 

What, me worry?

As a seller on eBay I am very concerned about other sellers that gouge on shipping prices they give the entire site a black eye. Ten, twelve years ago eBay made some attempt to prevent people from charging outrageous fees for shipping. But somewhere along the way eBay started billing sellers 10%  of what they charged for shipping. In conjunction with this eBay negotiated reduced fees from carriers to provide a 30-40% discount on labels printed on eBay / PayPal's label service. Since then eBay has abandoned any attempts to limit shipping charges by sellers.  Once upon a time eBay was much larger than Amazon who controls shipping charges by sellers rigorously while eBay has abandoned all efforts to do so. Now when I go to a social event and talk to friends they ask if I still sell on eBay and then comment about their terrible experience with sellers charging three and four times actual shipping fees to ship their items. I tell them to check shipping fees before bidding or buying and don't do business with these creeps. I think it is this shipping situation which has made Amazon much larger than eBay.   j 

Brewman1973 posted:

I suspect that Gunrunnerjohn is trying to have a little fun with us on the obvious error on Trainz.

In my experience with them,  I have had six invoices from them this year, just about all of them had multiple purchases.  The last one, I won 6 items, the shipping charges were $31.23, so the average cost was $5.20 per item. They compute the shipping charges by taking the item with the highest charge and then add the "with combined" costs with the other items (Usually less that $3, but depends in the item, some things do not have a lower combined price, usually those are for set boxes).

You do need to factor in the  buyers premium.

THe items come in new boxes and  are carefully packed.  THey don't use that popcorn crap, but packing paper, which makes it easy for my to recycle.  

As SIRT mentions, they use FED-EX, which I think does a fantasctic job delivering packages. 

Lastly, when I have had a issue with an item, I have been able to get a satisfactory response from Trainz. 

This is my last invoice.   All in, my average cost per item was about $24.  I know a lot of you guys would not pay 2 cents for this stuff, but that's what makes this a fun hobby.

Auction	Quantity	Unit Price	Item Total
Lionel 6-36556 Lionel Lines Work Caboose NIB	1	8.75 USD	USD 8.75
Lionel 6-19181 Great Northern Prairie View Aluminum Full Vista Dome Car EX/Box	1	18.91 USD	USD 18.91
Lionel 6-26597 Great Northern Illuminated Caboose NIB	1	13.75 USD	USD 13.75
Lionel 6-9437 Northern Pacific Stock Car NIB	1	12.25 USD	USD 12.25
Lionel 6-9455 Milwaukee Road Boxcar NIB	1	10.75 USD	USD 10.75
MTH 30-77281 O Burlington Northern Offset Steel Caboose #11335 LN/Box	1	31 USD	USD 31

==================================================================
Total : USD 95.41
Shipping : USD 31.23
Buyer's Premium: USD 17.17
Dash Fee: USD 3
Adjustment : USD 0
Grand Total : USD 146.81

Dave when did Trainz start charging a Buyer's Premium ? I purchase five -  six items a year from them and have never been charged a Buyer's Premium this re-juggles my ideas for doing business with them.  Or.     Was this BP for a live auction ?   I avoid Live Auctions for just that reason.            j

In my day job I deal a lot with shipping and freight charges.  There are a lot of factors that go into the recent increase in shipping costs:

- You should be aware that much of the overnight and larger LTL shipping that the USPS now does is contracted with FedEx.  Frankly has better infrastructure and ability to move the product than USPS does.

- New Federal mandates for trucking went into effect Jan 1 that require electronic/digital reporting units to be installed in truck cabs.  Average cost is estimated to be around $10,000 per cab.  The reporting/control units more accurately report the drivers hours and restrict their ability to drive over the allowed time.  Should a driver exceed the time the unit restricts the speed that the truck can travel allowing them only enough to reach the next exit or rest stop.  The added cost needs to be passed on to the consumer and many Mom & Pop companies as well as independent drivers who could not afford the mandated installs have chosen to park their rigs instead.

- There has been a significant increase in "weather events" the last couple years that have cause either a lot of delays in scheduled shipping or a lot of rigs to be diverted to disaster relief efforts.  Delays in scheduled trips have a trickle down effect in the amount of transit space available.  Diverted rigs aren't available at all.  It's the old theory of supply and demand, when the demand is higher than the supply the cost of the product, in this case shipping, goes up.

- About a year ago, it was estimated that there were about 6 drivers available for every 10 loads.  After the Jan 1 mandates and the loss of many owner/operators as well as the net weather effects, it's now estimated that there are 3-4 drivers available for every load. 

Just take a look at the semis you see going down the road on your next drive.  See how many of the have ads on the back for drivers wanted.  Around here it's rare to see a semi that isn't advertising.  Same listening to the radio.  On the stations I listen to I hear at least one ad an hour for some freight company touting how they're willing to train, what great benefits they have and how large their signing bonus is.

I'm not trying to justify the higher rate and especially not agreeing with them.  Just trying to make clear that it's not as likely that someone is trying to profit from them as it is they are a real cost.

And the next time you opt for "free shipping," ask your self just how free it really is.  The seller you're buying from is not loosing money on the deal and they certainly aren't doing you a favor because they like you so much.  You're paying,  You're just not seeing the real cost because you choose to believe it's free.

I'm not judging either.  I'm a Prime member.  I am, however a realist.

JohnActon posted:

Dave when did Trainz start charging a Buyer's Premium ? I purchase five -  six items a year from them and have never been charged a Buyer's Premium this re-juggles my ideas for doing business with them.  Or.     Was this BP for a live auction ?   I avoid Live Auctions for just that reason.            j

Hi John,  these were  Auctions,  its kind of fun to try and get things at the lower prices, but if I get into a bidding war, then I really pay attention, because its not a flat rate but a % of the final price (before shipping).  All the best, Dave

My biggest complaint is that back about what, 7-8 years ago when fuel prices went through the roof, all of the shippers increased their shipping prices accordingly because of it.  But now that fuel prices have gone back down, did we see shipping prices decrease?  No.  Those higher prices are now baked into their business model.  

Because of the shipping prices, I find it's just not worth it to try to sell cheaper items on eBay anymore.  By the time the eBay, PayPal, and now shipping charges are factored in, you are lucky to break even.  For all of that work, you might as well just donate the item to Goodwill.  

The shipping charges are especially bad when shipping across the country.  When I lived on the east coast, the shipping charges were reasonable and since so many train purchasers live there, that's where I was shipping and buying from the most.  But now that I'm in the midwest, shipping to the the coasts is so expensive.

I don't know what the answer is, but where does it stop?

I haven't been charged an outrageous price for shipping on any train item I've bought, whether from a hobby shop, eBay, or Trainz. But I live in Chicago, and pretty much everything goes through here, so shipping is reasonable. 

Now if you want to talk about crazy shipping charges I bought a rust free driver's side fender for my Thunderbird when I had it painted last year. The fender cost $75. It cost $225 to ship it to me from Georgia. So 3 times the cost of the fender to ship it. Sometimes with rare things you have to bite the bullet....