I had an ir device to activate a rr crossing.Well its now broke.So now I am wondering should I try the insulated rail route.If you know how this is done.Please post it here.Oh and I am using MTH highway flashers with sound.And as always any help I will be very greatful.
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What brand of track are you using? Some are easier to insulate than others.
Big_Boy_4005 posted:What brand of track are you using? Some are easier to insulate than others.
Gargreaves
The short answer is why not? It's simple and kinda fun.
They made a few so I'm guessing its a power on or off thing, Part number gets specifics (wire count, terminals?) The IR delay adds some realism and better rail connection reliability(2vs1), but the "loss" is not usually there on good track. If you have a preferred direction and traction tires, you may want to insulate on the tire side rail of any power fidgety locos, but it works great in general. A short vs long connection... or even two spots or more, can eliminate gate bounce and give some delay effect (you want one to the left and right of the gate for bi-directional trains.)
They are ac/dc ? LED or bubs? Voltage range? Ideal voltage IYO? A relay may be needed.
(I have mth crossbucks that were dc; but used, so maybe a diode was removed?...but I had to add one.)
Another option on tubular track for a trigger is a special Lionel lock on with clamp/ 1” connection strip that tops the outer rail, it's underside insulated from contact. The slight bump is hardly noticable.
Marx simply used a dot or strip of thin soft copper with a two sided tape insulating under it AND holding it to the rail. Peel, bend metal over the rail "n-style" till it is stuck for an instant trigger rail, be it 1/4" or 4" long.
Alcohol to clean track, 2 sided tape like window shrink wrap tape, carpet tape, etc., thin SOFT copper/brass from hardware, electrical, or hobby (maybe tinfoil just to play), Drill a wire hole(always 1st & carefully), attach wire (solder?) then tape back(avoids melting), then cut strip/dot with snips, etc., then peel/bend stick, then smile
No good reason I can think of this wouldn't work on any track.
Sharp flanges can pick at the edge but mostly they can last many years. (or be retaped, etc).
Robert Grossman Company of Ohio still stocks these cheap I think.
Adriatic posted:The short answer is why not? It's simple and kinda fun.
They made a few so I'm guessing its a power on or off thing, Part number gets specifics (wire count, terminals?) The IR delay adds some realism and better rail connection reliability(2vs1), but the "loss" is not usually there on good track. If you have a preferred direction and traction tires, you may want to insulate on the tire side rail of any power fidgety locos, but it works great in general. A short vs long connection... or even two spots or more, can eliminate gate bounce and give some delay effect (you want one to the left and right of the gate for bi-directional trains.)
They are ac/dc ? LED or bubs? Voltage range? Ideal voltage IYO? A relay may be needed.
(I have mth crossbucks that were dc; but used, so maybe a diode was removed?...but I had to add one.)
Another option on tubular track for a trigger is a special Lionel lock on with clamp/ 1” connection strip that tops the outer rail, it's underside insulated from contact. The slight bump is hardly noticable.
Marx simply used a dot or strip of thin soft copper with a two sided tape insulating under it AND holding it to the rail. Peel, bend metal over the rail "n-style" till it is stuck for an instant trigger rail, be it 1/4" or 4" long.
Alcohol to clean track, 2 sided tape like window shrink wrap tape, carpet tape, etc., thin SOFT copper/brass from hardware, electrical, or hobby (maybe tinfoil just to play), Drill a wire hole(always 1st & carefully), attach wire (solder?) then tape back(avoids melting), then cut strip/dot with snips, etc., then peel/bend stick, then smile
No good reason I can think of this wouldn't work on any track.
Sharp flanges can pick at the edge but mostly they can last many years. (or be retaped, etc).
Robert Grossman Company of Ohio still stocks these cheap I think.
I could really use a diagram but thanks for your reply.
seaboardm2 posted:Big_Boy_4005 posted:What brand of track are you using? Some are easier to insulate than others.
Gargreaves
Good answer, that makes life a lot easier.
In your old hookup arrangement, what kind of power was applied to the contacts of the IR device?
Ground or hot?
AC or DC?
I'm looking for a way that the insulated rail can supply the ground connection to the signal. That's what is going to activate it when the train goes by.
Big_Boy_4005 posted:seaboardm2 posted:Big_Boy_4005 posted:What brand of track are you using? Some are easier to insulate than others.
Gargreaves
Good answer, that makes life a lot easier.
In your old hookup arrangement, what kind of power was applied to the contacts of the IR device?
Ground or hot?
AC or DC?
I'm looking for a way that the insulated rail can supply the ground connection to the signal. That's what is going to activate it when the train goes by.
I using a z4000 the accessorie port and using ac.
OK, I think this is my last question. How many wires are there on the bottom of the crossing signal? If it's just two, this is a straight forward procedure.
First, cut two gaps in one of the outside rails. Make sure that there isn't a ground feeder in that segment. Next, connect the ground wire from the signal to the rail segment. Finally, connect the signal's hot wire back to the accessory port. Done!
When the train goes by, the ground is bridged by the wheels and axles to the isolated segment, and that's how it works.
You can operate anything that uses a simple on / off switch using this method.
If you want to get really fancy, you could have two insulated segments control the signal, one on either side of the road. Then just wire them together and connect them to the signal's ground. If you place them a good distance apart, you'll get a pretty realistic effect.
Big_Boy_4005 posted:OK, I think this is my last question. How many wires are there on the bottom of the crossing signal? If it's just two, this is a straight forward procedure.
First, cut two gaps in one of the outside rails. Make sure that there isn't a ground feeder in that segment. Next, connect the ground wire from the signal to the rail segment. Finally, connect the signal's hot wire back to the accessory port. Done!
When the train goes by, the ground is bridged by the wheels and axles to the isolated segment, and that's how it works.
If you want to get really fancy, you could have two insulated segments control the signal, one on either side of the road. Then just wire them together and connect them to the signal's ground. If you place them a good distance apart, you'll get a pretty realistic effect.
Thank you very much for the information.I will give it a shot.I let you know how it turned out.
Forgot to mention, the gaps should be around a foot apart. That should insure that there's always a set of wheels on it when the train is passing.
Just to settle any possible curiosity over the Marx piece, here is one; though one from R. Grossman's is half the price. (#367 is 7" & #368 is 1-1/2".. I couldn't find the "dot" version... may have been another supplier)
Once you see it, you'll realize how simply one can be made.
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Big_Boy_4005 posted:If you want to get really fancy, you could have two insulated segments control the signal, one on either side of the road. Then just wire them together and connect them to the signal's ground. If you place them a good distance apart, you'll get a pretty realistic effect.
I have seen a picture of an insulated rail that someone cut into about 5 segments on a single stretch of straight track, with 3 of them wired to power the flashing light and 2 separating them that were not. The effect was pretty good, I think.
MTH Crossing gates are (5) wire. (Two) power wires (Black and Red) and (3) for an NC/NO relay control. (Blue/Yellow/White).
An Older relay board that works.
Green wire is from the insulated rail section. (6) wires from the relay board to the crossing gate(s).
Big_Boy_4005 posted:Forgot to mention, the gaps should be around a foot apart. That should insure that there's always a set of wheels on it when the train is passing.
Well I have good news and bad news.The good news is it works fine. the bad news is the bell sounds nonstop.
Where is the sound emitted?
Usually (in my experiences) electronics switch to gound. But that's not always true. I'm wondering if the bell and lights are actually on a totally seperate circuit or something.
An ic could also be why the ir was failing.
Dallee also makes a relay that senses current flow. The rail is isolated but then reconnected using a jumper wire that passes through the sensing coil before it is soldered to the other common rail. I have come to prefer device as I have had issues with traction tires causing poor contact. These units also feature an adjustable timer which is quite nice.
After going back and forth.And connecting this wire to this wire.And then take this wire off and then put wire there.I fixed the problem by connecting the speaker wire the red one to the out side rail.Now it works great.Looking back on it now.I wished I had gone the insulated rail from the start.I found this to be a lot less wire to fool with.From now on I am done with ir sensors.
seaboardm2 posted:From now on I am done with ir sensors.
Contact me via email (in my profile), I'm interested in the broken IR sensor
George
In my simple world, an insulated rail is almost fool proof. No electronics to keep you guessing and certainly to keep you from doing repairs on them. Maybe not all situations can use an insulated rail, but if I can I will.
The block signal, for one, cannot operate properly with an insulated rail. Yes, the red light will go on when the train passes over the insulated rail, but the green light stays lit.
seaboardm2 posted:After going back and forth.And connecting this wire to this wire.And then take this wire off and then put wire there.I fixed the problem by connecting the speaker wire the red one to the out side rail.Now it works great.Looking back on it now.I wished I had gone the insulated rail from the start.I found this to be a lot less wire to fool with.From now on I am done with ir sensors.
Glad you got it, you've learned a new trick. Even though it's actually a very old one. I wouldn't be so quick to give up on the IR sensors though. They still have their value. Because they have an SPDT relay and a delay circuit, they can do things that the insulated rail alone can't. Now you can always use the insulated rail to trigger a relay, as was pointed out on the post above. That will allow you to drive green and red track signals.
Big_Boy_4005 posted:seaboardm2 posted:After going back and forth.And connecting this wire to this wire.And then take this wire off and then put wire there.I fixed the problem by connecting the speaker wire the red one to the out side rail.Now it works great.Looking back on it now.I wished I had gone the insulated rail from the start.I found this to be a lot less wire to fool with.From now on I am done with ir sensors.
Glad you got it, you've learned a new trick. Even though it's actually a very old one. I wouldn't be so quick to give up on the IR sensors though. They still have their value. Because they have an SPDT relay and a delay circuit, they can do things that the insulated rail alone can't. Now you can always use the insulated rail to trigger a relay, as was pointed out on the post above. That will allow you to drive green and red track signals.
Thank you and all other here who helped.
Here's what I use for block sensing, it also offers DCS compatibility and anti-chatter for the relay.
John, will your signal driver work with DC as a separate power supply?
Yep, technically the DC should be more than 12V as the relay is a 12V model and there is a 1.5V drop across the bridge that feeds the rectifier. However, since the relay spec is it must activate at 9V coil voltage, it works fine on 12V, I did a quick bench test just to make sure. It ran down to a bit less than 10VDC supply voltage. Obviously, the relay contacts being totally isolated will work with any signal voltage.
The SPDT relay allows triggering accessories that require power to separate functions depending on whether the insulated rail is occupied (e.g., red signal, gates driven down) or not occupied (e.g., green signal, gates driven up). If you are of the DIY mindset, for less than $3 on eBay (free shipping from Asia) you can pair an AC-to-DC voltage regulator module with a DC relay module to provide the SPDT functionality discussed in earlier posts. Should be able to do this without firing up the soldering iron.
The 12V DC output regulator module accepts AC-input (there's a bridge rectifier on it) from track-power or accessory-power. It also has a storage capacitor which assists with de-chatter (flickering block signal behavior) for intermittent/dirty wheel-to-track contact.
And here it is in action! 
If using track power with DCS command control, add the 5-cent 22uH inductor/choke on the AC input to the voltage converter module.
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