Should MTH sell non-powered units again? I like having a non- powered unit, with lights, etc., in a multiple unit consist, especially when a lot of power is not needed.
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For me, to go the non-power or dummy route the price difference has to be much greater. The price of the offerings over the last few years did not justify the paying a bit more for a powered unit.
If the difference was say 60~70% then maybe I would start to consider the dummy route.
Charlie
I thought they still sold Rail King non-powered locomotives.
Charlie posted:For me, to go the non-power or dummy route the price difference has to be much greater. The price of the offerings over the last few years did not justify the paying a bit more for a powered unit.
If the difference was say 60~70% then maybe I would start to consider the dummy route.
Charlie
Agree with Charlie
Karl
Absolutely!!!!! 
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I like dummies. I don't do command control. If they want my money, they'll have to make SCALE conventional and dummies.
Love the dummies. Always bought the matching dummies when I ordered the power units. Even bought random dummies for their cool paint schemes to include in longer MUs and to park on sidings.
Absolutely - YES
I think that MTH should sell non powered diesel units again. The ones they made in the past really look great!
Lee Fritz
Heck yeah that's a grounder 
U BET!
I thought they still sold Rail King non-powered locomotives.
It seems that MTH is cutting back on non-powered units [i.e.phasing them out] in the RK line too!
According to Andy Edelman of MTH, MTH was loosing $$ for the $200+ msrp they were asking in the premier line. MTH was not saving much by omitting the electronics from their locos. Andy E. also felt the climbing prices being asked for Premier non- powered units were getting too expensive for the market to bear. Lets face it in the 2016 Vol1 cat the avg MSRP for a premier line loco is $500.00 What will the msrp be for a non- powered unit? Perhapse $400.00, $300+? Will the market bear that price point?
I tend to agree now with the poster below:
As Charlie posted:
For me, to go the non-power or dummy route the price difference has to be much greater. The price of the offerings over the
last few years did not justify the paying a bit more for a powered unit.
If the difference was say 60~70% then maybe I would start to consider the dummy route.
I owned two of the MTH premier 8-40cw non-powered. They looked great and the included lighting with on/off switch made for a great value. I sold them a few years later for what I paid for them.
I have to assume mth stopped making them because they weren't profitable.
Technological and marketing changes are subtle, sometimes. What seems like a "no-brainer - no motors and they cost a lot less" seems like a simple idea. Problem is, so much of our electronics and motors are pretty cheap to produce, assembly is more efficient and generally done by cheaper-than-before hands, and, as stated above, for a "little" more you could have the powered unit.
Problem is, dummies are flexible and easy to run, if you want the "look" of massive power without dealing with coordinating (with whatever system and scheme you live with) umpty-ump motors.
Not really a problem for me - I'm a steam guy, and if we need "more engines", we just pull an articulated off the ready track! Already, uh, "lashed-up". But, still, I do have the odd dee-sul about.
A similar cost/price issue has existed when it come to marketing small, high-end scale steam locos: it costs nearly as much to get that 2-6-0 from design to assembly to the dealer's shelf (the materials are really not the major costs) as it does the latest 4-8-4, but we won't pay $1199 for a little Mogul, so, few Moguls, and the like. That has improved a bit over the years, but it still is a pattern. (There have also been space considerations in small locomotives of any type when the latest electronics are expected by the customer; that also has improved.)
If m t h wasn't saving much omitting the electronics, why does an upgrade cost so much...? I agree, dummy engines have a better resale than the powered do...jim
At the last price point, I don't see much of an advantage to them, so I don't see them coming back. Aalso note that MTH has gone to two road numbers instead of three (and cataloging them with separate numbers). MTH didn't even make them in the -2 scale-wheeled series, quite likely because of the weight as a dummy would neutralize some of the pulling power of the powered units.
"According to Andy Edelman of MTH, MTH was loosing $$ for the $200+ msrp they were asking in the premier line. MTH was not saving much by omitting the electronics from their locos. Andy E. also felt the climbing prices being asked for Premier non- powered units were getting too expensive for the market to bear. Lets face it in the 2016 Vol1 cat the avg MSRP for a premier line loco is $500.00 What will the msrp be for a non- powered unit? Perhapse $400.00, $300+? Will the market bear that price point?"
This above info from MTH makes very little sense and is not consistent with their own current Premiere catalog, which has non-powered units:
F7 powered units list for $450.
F7 non-powered units listed for $170.
By my math, that makes the electronics inside worth about $280.
A six-axle diesel lists for $500.
Subtract out the same $280 for the same electronics in the F7's, and you get a non-powered for $220. Sure, it's more than $200 MSRP, but I think most folks here would pay $220 for a brand-new, non-powered, 6-axle diesel. Plus they sell more units (more axles, more frames, more shells, etc. Piece part costs for these drop with more units sold, and the only delta is the price to change printing the shells and number boards. Shoot - I bet most folks might prefer them to make a kit - leave no number board and provide a sticker sheet - make-your-own-number dummy.
I'm an MTH guy over Lionel, and it irritated me when they started dropping their non-powered - so much so that I've started back with Lionel for some diesels.
Like the dummies! I have 8 premiere Norfolk Southern Heritage diesels and the dummy for each one! Love the way they look! Glad I got them when I did because they've gone the way of the buffalo!
I like the look of a Multiple Engine Consist, but these days who can afford to have 3 or 4 powered
units on a single train. I think smart(with smoke and lighting) dummies would be an alternative that
would interest a lot of people if priced fairly.
Jacobpaul81 posted:I like dummies. I don't do command control. If they want my money, they'll have to make SCALE conventional and dummies.
You do know that all Proto2.0 and 3.0 engines run just fine in conventional mode, right?
My understanding is that the dummies got dropped because sales fell off. Period. As prices went up, people preferred to spend the extra dough on the second powered unit.
As a dealer, one doesn't want to have a lot dummies left over after the powered units are gone. The Heritage units aside, the only customer that wants the dummy is the customer that bought a powered unit first.
I expect when it's all done, I will have the dummy F As left. I shouldn't have ordered them.
There are no dummies on my layout, except me when I'm working on it. I want sound, smoke and lights in all my engines, and it is cheaper to buy a powered unit than add all that to a dummy. The downside is I have a couple of ABA units that draw a lot of power.
Not at the price they were asking! I could get a second powered unit for 40% more which has directional lighting and smoke plus more pulling power.
Wowak posted:Jacobpaul81 posted:I like dummies. I don't do command control. If they want my money, they'll have to make SCALE conventional and dummies.
You do know that all Proto2.0 and 3.0 engines run just fine in conventional mode, right?
Well aware - I'm installing battery RC. PS boards regardless of # are just junk I remove. 
Jacobpaul81 posted:Well aware - I'm installing battery RC. PS boards regardless of # are just junk I remove.
in that case I'd be happy to dispose of your junk for you.
Yes
But dummies would be great for DP powered trains with a locomotive at the REAR of the train!
MTH 2016 Catalog, Volume One / Non-powered - RailKing Page 13, & other pages. Yes: I like Non-powered units & have several on my layout.
