Signal system

First:  Do you have enough main line track to divide it into blocks?  You need a minimum of four blocks for a working signal system.  For your signals to indicate track occupancy in both directions and improperly lined (or lined in reverse) turnouts, you must have a track circuit, which requires blocks bounded by insulated joints.  If you cannot make four blocks of at least a train length each, just go for action signals.

Here's what I suggest:  Use Custom Signals now, while you still can.  It is a well-designed, plug and play system, although it takes some thought in design and some care in installation.  It requires insulated joints.  If the price is too high, get a small loan and Use Custom Signals while it's still possible.  Remember what your namesake Thomas Aquinas said: "A block signal system cannot attain salvation in the absence of insulated blocks."

And that's just for simple ABS, where signals only indicate either proceed, approach, or stop.  If you want route indication at turnouts, then you are getting into something more complex.

If you already have ballasted track and no insulated joints already in place, then Custom Signals or any other system that relies on track circuits to activate signals is going to be somewhat more difficult, as you will have to remove or cut and insulate rail already in place.

If you are satisfied with having action signals, then, in my opinion, the best solution is Z-Stuff semaphores.  They are activated by sensors, and I understand that they can be daisy chained.  If not daisy chained, they will operate, but will not indicate track occupancy, so they will not degrade for opposing traffic as a train approaches.

For most O gauge operaters, the complexity of an automatic block signal system is more complex than they can enjoy, and action signals are really what they wanted in the first place.

After what Tom said, you can try "rolling your own" system with signals on EPay from seller "wehonest".  He sells generic- traffic Light type signals and some activation boards so its all passive system- for looks rather than operation.

Atlas will present something new, soon.

Lou N

I'm at this same point on my layout. Considering I have very little electrical skill, all that has been said makes me want to curl up in a little ball and suck my thumb. 

luvindemtrains posted:

I'm at this same point on my layout. Considering I have very little electrical skill, all that has been said makes me want to curl up in a little ball and suck my thumb. 

If you do not yet have ballasted track, then you can use Custom Signals quite easily.  And, really, 3-indication block signals are fine.  All you need is to be able to make four blocks.  If you have double track, for blocks in each track.  Custom Signals is plug and play, and the circuit board in the photo was all connected with cables resembling telephone cords.  If I had used 3-indication signals, then it would have only required half or less of those relays.  Also, I have several turnouts, including two wyes and an automatic interlocking where two tracks cross.  Don't let that scare you.  Just do what will satisfy you, and keep it as simple as possible.  

What kind of track are you using ?  What do you want your signals to do ?  Here is a simple block signal system using relays. Signal shows green when block is unoccupied. Red when train is in the block.  The relays can also shut off power to the center rail to stop a train at a red signal.   This is old school, been around for a long time.    See this link

http://www.toytrainrevue.com/

Go to Layout tips on the left, then go into    Installing a Block System

This requires that you have insulated control rails, so, if your track is down and you don't have control rails, this could be difficult.  

Here is the relay set-up I use.   Signals drop from green to red as train enters block.  But I do not have set up to stop the train. I have Lionel tubular track and took the time to add insulation to outside rails on one side of the track.  The same way the center rail is insulated from the metal tie.  Add the fiber pins at the ends of the control rails to replace the steel track pin to isolate the control rail.  My control rails are 3-4 feet long.   I don't  use lock-ons.  I use male spade connectors pushed into the rail from the underside of the track.

Here is a picture of one of my relay set-ups.  I make a wood shelf that hangs under the benchwork.  If I need, I can drop the set-up down onto the floor if I need to work on it.  The parts are Radio Shack that I bought when they still had stores you could walk into.   I use 4 conductor telephone wire ( Red, Green, Yellow, Black ) from the signal with standard  a telephone jack to  make the connection to the relay set-up.

Except for one MTH / Railking signal, and one NJ International Semaphore, My signals are scratch built.   Some are searchlight signals and some are 2 color, Green over Red.  The semaphore is manual control.

Steve

Lou n , is atlas going to have the ho blmi line of signals made to oscale size ? Those modern signal look terrific. Maybe with there exsisting signal boards and sheds.

z-stuff.  

Thanks for all the responses. I am using gargraves and Ross switches.  Nothing has been ballasted yet bc I'm trying to weigh options for signals.    A good question.   Do I want just action?  Or do I want directional functionality as well ??    Something I have to consider.  To tell you the truth I'm kinda in between action and function.   

Aquinas2 posted:

Thanks for all the responses. I am using gargraves and Ross switches.  Nothing has been ballasted yet bc I'm trying to weigh options for signals.    A good question.   Do I want just action?  Or do I want directional functionality as well ??    Something I have to consider.  To tell you the truth I'm kinda in between action and function.   

You can add a few simple green / red signals to start.  If you want to add train control to stop a train at a red signal , you can add that later.   

Steve

Interesting thread and timely for me.

In my world simplicity is the key so the 3 indication block system will probably be my route - diverging or otherwise.

Paul

Lou N posted:

Atlas will present something new, soon.

Lou N

They may be able to present but can they deliver? Honestly if Atlas O is bringing in a new signal system, I highly doubtful that it will function and/or would be as scale as the Custom Signals system. Is Atlas o going to imvest in all the different types of signals from RR of the 1950's or be a more current system of this century consisting only three types; color position, type g, and type d.

Possible announcement at York?

Lionelzwl2012 posted:

Lou n , is atlas going to have the ho blmi line of signals made to oscale size ? Those modern signal look terrific. Maybe with there exsisting signal boards and sheds.

I do not know.  I hope so.

Lou N

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Lou N posted:

Atlas will present something new, soon.

Lou N

They may be able to present but can they deliver? Honestly if Atlas O is bringing in a new signal system, I highly doubtful that it will function and/or would be as scale as the Custom Signals system. Is Atlas o going to imvest in all the different types of signals from RR of the 1950's or be a more current system of this century consisting only three types; color position, type g, and type d.

Possible announcement at York?

I don't know which styles of signals are in the queue.  I do know that Custom Signals used Atlas tooling and some boards for his system.

Lou N

Terry used his own boards.  Atlas is in the process of modifying their boards before they re-release their signals.  I do not know what these mods entail.

Jan

I really wanted PRR-style position light signals and I wanted the signal system to function realistically.  I am currently working with Terry from Custom Signals installing a signal plan he created for me ~ 2 years ago.  Terry's been pretty helpful as I am installing and trouble-shooting.   My layout and signal plan is double-track main with three interlockings and intermediate signals between each interlocking.  There is also a yard with running tracks signaled. Everything is signaled bi-directionally. 

The Custom Signals system is simultaneously complicated and straightforward.  The overall scheme is complex, but it has a logic to it, so that once you understand the application in one area, the wiring pattern logic simply repeats itself throughout the layout.  The signals function based on inputs of train detection in the blocks and switch position.

If you want realistic operation and beautiful models of PRR position light signals, I'd definitely recommend Custom Signals. 

I agree with the custom signals approach.  He has a lot of track config libraries to show how to wire just about any configuration.  My dad and I compeleted about 3rd of his layout with custom signals (40’x20’).  If we had the track blocks in before we started, we could have had it done in weekend.  

Before doing anything, I would recommend sitting down and thinking how the blocks will divide up to figure out the kind of money it would take to complete your vision  Based on your budget, you might decide to do just a couple of areas that are more visible, such as a double cross over and the approaches to it.  That was my dad’s original plan, but once the signals were installed, he was hooked and bought signals for the entire layout.