Sine wave chop/unchopped

There is no simple answer.  I run conventionally.  The ZW-L runs Vision, Legacy, and PS-1, 2, and 3 locos smoother and slower and more linearly than anything else I have used (and I've had them all).  Many power supplies are good - the Z4k, some Realtpower ones, but the chopped output of the ZW is just a bit better.  Personally I would not used pure sine power anymore, but that's a choice everyone has to make for themselves.

Lee has good advice and experience to go with it. I will add that the only thing I have heard having trouble with the CW80s was some earlier MTH engines. I don't know if the newer MTh engines have a problem or not, but it's not on MTH's recommended list or at least last time I looked at one it wasn't.

 

Many use an old ZW, but if you do that make sure you get newer faster acting and properly sized breakers. Also make sure you get one that has been checked by someone that knows transformers and is safe to use. I would also like to have a new ZW-L, maybe someday.

I dislike the CW-80s.I've had 2. 1 each with the Polar and Hogwarts Express. both had fans that were very loud and failed. I now run DCS powered by Z1000 bricks, and would ask about the various transformers in your price range. 

I have been looking at the sin wave chop/chopped and can not get what is going on.

 

I run conventional and have mainly newer stuff ,but would like to get some PW/MPC things also.

 

I would really like the new ZW-L ,but that's not going to happen.

 

I see older Zw's for sale at times and wonder about them.

 

Do not want to burn anything up running the wrong transformer type.

 

Which would be better for me to get ?

 

Hi Meter Man

 

I took your original questions and comments and rearranged them a little.

 

The whole chopped sine wave vs. pure sine wave thing as hyped in one infamous video is mostly a marketing attempt to make up for a quirk in the electronics for one modern manufacturers smoke units.  They also happen to sell a very expensive transformer that uses a chopped sine wave for voltage control.

 

For PW or MPC era trains the old motors with no on board motor control electronics there is little difference.  Although a newer transformer like a Z-1000, Z-4000 or ZW-L might give you a slight control advantage at slow speed over an old transformer they will run like old trains either way.

 

Modern locomotives won't notice much either.  Conventional trains like Williams or lower priced train set locomotives have rectifiers that turn either chopped or unchopped AC into smooth direct current that is sent to the motors.

 

Modern command control trains like TMCC or Legacy with Odyssey II or ProtoSound 2 and 3 also rectify the AC to DC that is sent to the can motors.  Additionally, they use the track voltage like a speed command and have motor control circuits that give you cruise control by using the on board electronics to control the DC power sent to the motors.

 

The only significant advantage to a chopped sine wave like the ZW-L has is if you have recent high end Lionel locomotives.  They have a quirky design for the electronics that control the smoke unit heater elements.  They do smoke more when they get the short duration higher voltage spike from a transformer like a ZW-L.  MTH smoke units will put out plenty of smoke run in command or conventional on a pure sine wave or a chopped sine wave transformer.

 

If smoke output from Legacy steamers is an issue for you then chopped sine waves might be a big deal.  Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.

 

A competently reconditioned post-war transformer like a ZW or KW might be a good option as long as you add a fast acting external circuit breaker or fuse to protect the electronics of your modern trains.  However, I don't have a 60 year old toaster in my kitchen and prefer not to have antique transformers in regular service in the train room.

 

The ZW-L is a good transformer and is competitively priced for its capacity.  But if you don't need that much power there are plenty of other options.  The Z-4000 has replaced the ZW as the benchmark big transformer. They have proven reliable for over 15 years now and the voltage and amperage meters are easy to read.  The Z-1000 is the benchmark train set transformer of the modern era and may be a good option.  You can also use MTH or Lionel "bricks" and use a TIU or TPC to control track voltage for conventional running.

 

Also what is so bad about the CW-80's that come in the newer sets ?

 

The CW 80 chops the natural AC sine wave in a particularly dirty fashion.  It is not like other chopped sine wave transformers like a ZW-L or Z-1000.  The CW-80 also lacks a real circuit breaker.  It has a power limiting circuit but it does not fully cut power to a track that has a dead short.  The first CW-80s also had an astoundingly high failure rate.

 

I hope that helps you decide what transformer will best meet your needs.

 

Ted Hikel's posting above reflects my own practical experience. I got a very good deal on a ZW-L and replaced my Z-4000 with it specifically because I understood that Legacy smoke units and indeed 3rd Rail smoke units work better with the chopped sine wave. In general they do but I find that with Lionel units you also have to ramp up the EFX/momentum settings to get maximum output. Now MTH PS3 diesels have a variable intensity smoke control that automatically controls output depending on the RPM sound setting. I have not had any trouble running these with the ZW-L - once I understood that this new feature existed.

You could also take a look at the MRC Pure Power transformer.  The dual-control version has 270 watts, pure sine wave, amp and volt meters, and is reasonably priced.

Hello

I want to thank everyone for their input.

As I under stand it;

The older ZW 's are fine ,

But a Modern circuit beaker is a must.

Is this for the 110 volt line or each power feed or both ?

Is there a model year break down or list on what ZW's  are what ?

had forgotten about MRC 's as this is what powered my HO lay out

I want to do some of the basic planning  and power for my trains is one of them.

The CW-80's are fine for now and most likely be moved to lights and switch power later on .

If I can get some of the jobs from the boss's list done ,and work calms down .I would like to come off the floor onto some bench work.

Have a safe and happy holiday

 

 

The breaker would be for track power. Between the transformer and the track.

 

I don't know much about the old ZW's, other than there was a 250 watt and a 275 watt version. Others will have to help with that one. Just make sure it has been checked out and is safe, which ever one it is.

The only important thing is if you run a smooth sin wave with new equipment get an o gauge proper transformer that can go to 18 volts(some go higher), O-27 transformers end at about 15 (O-27 equipment can go air born at 18 volts, which is most of your MPC era equipment, and tends to be rather sensitive in build quality, run smooth if you can to cut down on wear and tear on the motor) and for modern equipment that is a big deal, and it will need an external circuit breaker.