Smoke Output On PS1 Diesels

Trainlover9943 posted:

Is there a way to get better smoke output on a PS1 diesel? I have a 20-2184-1 SD90MAC and it doesn't smoke well when moving. I want it to smoke similar to how it does at 18 volts when running at 9 or 10 volts. I saw something about dropping the voltage to the motor(s) using a diode, can that be used here? 

Have you rewicked and soaked the batting? That's what I did on my J class and T1 and they smoke great now.

I haven't rewicked it but the batting probably could use some replacing. I need to order some. 

Trainlover9943 posted:

I haven't rewicked it but the batting probably could use some replacing. I need to order some. 

I always say rewick and I really just mean replace the batting. Yes, if you replace the batting and soak it, it will smoke much better. Just letting you know now that the old PS1 smoke units have the batting rapped around the elements so that's what needs to be removed. Then just lay a new ball of batting in the bowl and soak it.

Sid's Trains posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

I haven't rewicked it but the batting probably could use some replacing. I need to order some. 

I always say rewick and I really just mean replace the batting. Yes, if you replace the batting and soak it, it will smoke much better. Just letting you know now that the old PS1 smoke units have the batting rapped around the elements so that's what needs to be removed. Then just lay a new ball of batting in the bowl and soak it.

Alright I will do that. 

Trainlover9943 posted:

Sid's Trains posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

I haven't rewicked it but the batting probably could use some replacing. I need to order some. 

I always say rewick and I really just mean replace the batting. Yes, if you replace the batting and soak it, it will smoke much better. Just letting you know now that the old PS1 smoke units have the batting rapped around the elements so that's what needs to be removed. Then just lay a new ball of batting in the bowl and soak it.

Alright I will do that. 

Do you need the Lionel part number for smoke batting?

Any ideas on this? 

Trainlover9943 posted:

Any ideas on this? 

Yeah, this gaskets go bad all the time. I have corrected that using silicone or liquid electrical tape before to seal the leak.

Sid's Trains posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

Any ideas on this? 

Yeah, this gaskets go bad all the time. I have corrected that using silicone or liquid electrical tape before to seal the leak.

Put the tape on the gasket itself and attach it back in place? 

Sid's Trains posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

Sid's Trains posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

I haven't rewicked it but the batting probably could use some replacing. I need to order some. 

I always say rewick and I really just mean replace the batting. Yes, if you replace the batting and soak it, it will smoke much better. Just letting you know now that the old PS1 smoke units have the batting rapped around the elements so that's what needs to be removed. Then just lay a new ball of batting in the bowl and soak it.

Alright I will do that. 

Do you need the Lionel part number for smoke batting?

Yes, I need the number. 

Trainlover9943 posted:

Sid's Trains posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

Sid's Trains posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

I haven't rewicked it but the batting probably could use some replacing. I need to order some. 

I always say rewick and I really just mean replace the batting. Yes, if you replace the batting and soak it, it will smoke much better. Just letting you know now that the old PS1 smoke units have the batting rapped around the elements so that's what needs to be removed. Then just lay a new ball of batting in the bowl and soak it.

Alright I will do that. 

Do you need the Lionel part number for smoke batting?

Yes, I need the number. 

If your talking about liquid electrical tape then yes. Here is the part number.

Alright cool. Thanks! Where would I put the silicone? Same place? 

Trainlover9943 posted:

Alright cool. Thanks! Where would I put the silicone? Same place? 

I usually take the gaskets off, put the silicone on the bare metal, then out the gaskets on and then again out a bead on the top of the gasket. Remember a bead all the way around on the top and bottom of the gasket and it should seal.

I just buy the gaskets from MTH, they're readily available. I don't recommend silicone, the gasket is more than sufficient to properly seal the smoke unit.

FWIW, if you're not getting a significant quantity of smoke at 9-10 volts on the track from a PS/1 smoke unit, something is wrong.  They have a voltage regulator circuit to insure vast quantities of smoke at most conventional voltages.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I just buy the gaskets from MTH, they're readily available. I don't recommend silicone, the gasket is more than sufficient to properly seal the smoke unit.

FWIW, if you're not getting a significant quantity of smoke at 9-10 volts on the track from a PS/1 smoke unit, something is wrong.  They have a voltage regulator circuit to insure vast quantities of smoke at most conventional voltages.

I didn't even know Mth had the gaskets. I have never had good luck with their parts department so I just gave up and founds ways around it. I know silicone isn't the best but it works for me. 

Here's a PS/1 smoke unit with 7 VAC on the power inputs.  The picture isn't actually doing it justice, let's just say there's a lot of smoke!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Here's a PS/1 smoke unit with 7 VAC on the power inputs.  The picture isn't actually doing it justice, let's just say there's a lot of smoke!

   

Have you replaced the batting in that unit and soaked it as well?

Sid's Trains posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I just buy the gaskets from MTH, they're readily available. I don't recommend silicone, the gasket is more than sufficient to properly seal the smoke unit.

FWIW, if you're not getting a significant quantity of smoke at 9-10 volts on the track from a PS/1 smoke unit, something is wrong.  They have a voltage regulator circuit to insure vast quantities of smoke at most conventional voltages.

I didn't even know Mth had the gaskets. I have never had good luck with their parts department so I just gave up and founds ways around it. I know silicone isn't the best but it works for me. 

MTH IB-0000006-5  Gasket (for standard smoke unit) (25.0x37.0mm) (0.5mm thick)

The previous picture was one that I took out of the parts box, I have no idea of the condition of the wick, but they'll smoke good until the wick looks pretty grim.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sid's Trains posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I just buy the gaskets from MTH, they're readily available. I don't recommend silicone, the gasket is more than sufficient to properly seal the smoke unit.

FWIW, if you're not getting a significant quantity of smoke at 9-10 volts on the track from a PS/1 smoke unit, something is wrong.  They have a voltage regulator circuit to insure vast quantities of smoke at most conventional voltages.

I didn't even know Mth had the gaskets. I have never had good luck with their parts department so I just gave up and founds ways around it. I know silicone isn't the best but it works for me. 

MTH IB-0000006-5  Gasket (for standard smoke unit) (25.0x37.0mm) (0.5mm thick)

This fits all PS1 locomotives with smoke?

Well, not all...  There are some oddball smoke units around, but a vast majority of the MTH PS1/2/3 engines with the full sized smoke unit use the same gasket.  I keep some thin gasket material around to make gaskets for stuff that I can't get a factory gasket.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Here's a PS/1 smoke unit with 7 VAC on the power inputs.  The picture isn't actually doing it justice, let's just say there's a lot of smoke!

   

That's quite a bit of smoke! What does the voltage regulator look like and where could I purchase a new one? 

The voltage regulator is part of the PS/1 smoke unit, you already have it!  That's a stock PS/1 smoke unit in the bench vise, I just connected the transformer to it.  In the PS/1 engine, it runs on track power.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The voltage regulator is part of the PS/1 smoke unit, you already have it!  That's a stock PS/1 smoke unit in the bench vise, I just connected the transformer to it.  In the PS/1 engine, it runs on track power.

Ah alright. How could I get it to smoke like that in the engine? 

Basically, a new wick, make sure the airflow is right, and you should be good to go.  You want the MTH Braided Wick, AA-0000001.

eBay: 123698059326 is a perfect substitute for the MTH wick, and it's much cheaper.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Basically, a new wick, make sure the airflow is right, and you should be good to go.  You want the MTH Braided Wick, AA-0000001.

eBay: 123698059326 is a perfect substitute for the MTH wick, and it's much cheaper.

 

Cool. I'll get on it. Can I use it in Lionel smoke units too? A few of my lionel units need new batting. 

I use the Lionel shredded wick (or my home grown equivalent) for Lionel smoke units.  The braids for MTH are perfect for sandwiching between the two smoke resistors.  With the Lionel units, you have to arrange the wick in a different manner, basically shred it and stuff it all into the bottom of the fluid bowl.  For single resistor smoke units, you want the smoke resistor to be firmly nestled in the wick material, but NOT totally covered, the top must be exposed.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I use the Lionel shredded wick (or my home grown equivalent) for Lionel smoke units.  The braids for MTH are perfect for sandwiching between the two smoke resistors.  With the Lionel units, you have to arrange the wick in a different manner, basically shred it and stuff it all into the bottom of the fluid bowl.  For single resistor smoke units, you want the smoke resistor to be firmly nestled in the wick material, but NOT totally covered, the top must be exposed.

Alright. Thanks. What is your home grown equivalent for the lionel wick? 

The PS1 smoke units vary smoke output based on track voltage.  Below a certain threshold (11-12 I think) engages 1 heater.  Above that voltage, both heaters are engaged.  You can see the difference in neutral by slowly ramping up the voltage and noticing the change in current and smoke output.

Jon G posted:

The PS1 smoke units vary smoke output based on track voltage.  Below a certain threshold (11-12 I think) engages 1 heater.  Above that voltage, both heaters are engaged.  You can see the difference in neutral by slowly ramping up the voltage and noticing the change in current and smoke output.

Oh I definitely notice the output difference with different voltage.

I have noticed that if you let the units heat up in neutral, then when they are running they will smoke better.

There's a transistor switch that bypasses one of the 16 ohm resistors a low voltage, around 9-10 volts AC it appears.  As you can see from my video, even at low voltage you should have plenty of smoke, so I'd say new wick would be in order for your smoke unit.

Trainlover9943 posted:

Alright. Thanks. What is your home grown equivalent for the lionel wick? 

I found some loosely braided 1/2" torch wick on eBay that has the perfect sized strands, I just pull it apart and fluff it up.  It ends up looking just like the Lionel braided wick, only about 10 cents for a smoke unit's wick replacement.

Great. I went into this engines smoke unit to prime the smoke unit as the batting was bone dry and I found that one of the resistors was cracked and broken. I threw it away. Still only smokes good at less than 11 volts. This is 10.8 volts. So now I need a new resistor and batting. 

Is it ok to run the smoke unit with one resistor or is two required? @gunrunnerjohn

If you don't have two 16 ohm resistors in the unit, once the voltage reaches the switching threshold, the smoke will cease.  You need to resistors.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you don't have two 16 ohm resistors in the unit, once the voltage reaches the switching threshold, the smoke will cease.  You need to resistors.

Alright. That probably could be why the smoke unit doesn't smoke past 11 volts? I'll order a resistor. Will these work or are they the wrong value? 

That's the part you need.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's the part you need.

Cool! I'll order a few along with some batting and speakers. Are those resistors compatible with PS2/3 engines as well? 

Yep, same resistor for all the full sized MTH smoke units.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, same resistor for all the full sized MTH smoke units.

Sweet!