So another York is over.....

Joe, I agree.  They would need to continue the badge system.

quote:

Public shows like Greenberg have one building and one door to get in. How would you deal with many buildings and doors?

The annual Springfield, MA show is in multiple buildings. They use wrist bands.

(Not that I want to see the show opened to the public)

Wrist bands would seem to be better if public admission ever becomes reality.

Badges for the public are too easy to swap and "share" admission prices. 

If you're not a member to begin with, the normal repurcussions for sharing a badge become irrelevant.

-Dave

I've worn wrist bands for a number of shows...usually one day/one or 2 entrances to get in. I personally hate them, especially with a long sleeve shirt or jacket. However, I can't remember a show where I was in attendance for over 2 hours, so no big deal.

I would guess they would result in lines at York waiting to show your wrist band. They are hard to see unless you are wearing a short sleeve shirt.

quote:

I would guess they would result in lines at York waiting to show your wrist band. They are hard to see unless you are wearing a short sleeve shirt.

The Springfield show (mentioned above) is held at the end of January, when it is cold and raw. So folks usually have winter coats. Other than at the show's opening, the entrances really don't get too backed up.

The manufacturers could stay over to Sunday and open it to the public if they wanted.

They could do Friday, Saturday, Sunday. This would help members who can only make Saturday also, since the ORANGE Hall would be open for the full day.

Charlie, That may make the most sense.  Have Friday and Saturday with the current setup and make Sunday a public show.  I think that would solve the poor attendance on the third day which would now be Sunday. 

Wrist bands only good in Orange/Brown Dealer Halls.

No Tax issues for those halls

Other Halls can close at reg time on Sat.

Invite Media in to do feature story or TV coverage

This will spur people to join the TCA to get into other Halls.

Run Raffle to "keep" members longer on Saturday with great prizes

So many ideas, and so little thought given to the ramifications or consequences.

Take Sunday, for example: 

Assume the meet was continued through most of Sunday.  First, who is going to foot the bill for the extension?  Second, who is going to pay the considerable cost of advertising the event in the Baltimore/D.C./Philadelphia/Harrisburg markets (it ain't cheap, you know)?  Third, what about dealers/manufacturers/sellers who travel long distances and need to be open for regular business on Mondays, not to mention the additional food and lodging expenses for those folks?  And the list goes on and on?

You read some of the comments on this forum and you might be led to believe that the York Meet--the largest such event in the world--is somehow broken or in need of significant improvement.  I have news for you folks:  It's doing just fine as the member-oriented meet (NOT show) it is designed to be.

While I don't think opening York to the public for even one day would be a good idea, there are other things that could be done to boost Saturday attendance and expose new people to York and the TCA at the same time while staying within the established rules.

My suggestion would be for EDTCA to offer a Saturday-only guest program.  The EDTCA could sign in people as guests (rather than have individuals do it) on Saturday for $10 pre-registered or $12 at the door (they would all have to pick up their badges on Saturday morning).  They could track the Saturday-only guests the same way that they track regular guests to ensure the one-time only rule is observed.  Flyers could be posted in all the area hobby shops, and perhaps a little extra advertising in newspapers or direct-mail adzines like the Pennysaver or Clipper might be helpful.  Ads in OGR and CTT (and perhaps other model train publications) would be another possibility.

This would give the curious an easy way to check out York (without having to track down a member to sign them in as a guest), it would give EDTCA a few more extra $$$ (and they could try it once and decide later based on Saturday-only guest registrations whether to do it again and how often), and it would get more people in the halls on a Saturday (which should make the vendors/sellers a little bit happier at the opportunity to sell more).  It would require a little extra work on the part of the EDTCA, but if it results in all of the above happening (benefitting everyone), and perhaps even get a few new members in the process, wouldn't it be worth it?

And as I said, it could be tried once and either continued or discontinued based on the results without changing one rule.

Andy

Andy, good idea.  I would suggest that kids should be free when accompanied by a guest.

Andy,

That is a good idea and John I agree, kids should be free.

Gee, didn't realize that was a prerequisite for providing these suggestions.

It's over, and we're STILL waiting for some kind person to offer some observations about this edition of York to those of us who couldn't attend. I don't recall such silence any time previously; seems there's always been at least some discussion before. Just some general observations would be great: size of crowd, buying activity, number of sellers and buyers, kind of items on the sales tables, what folks seemed to be buying, activity and extent of displays at manufacturers' tables, etc.

Breezinup, I can only offer a very limited viewpoint, completely subjective, due to my being cemented to my little booth in the Orange Hall. However, it was right next to the large roll-up door on the eastward side of the building, which meant a lot of foot traffice marched by me. Beyond that perspective, I did not step foot in any other hall, but did peruse the Orange Hall, a couple times, up and down a few aisles and the main transverse "avenue" that divides the whole building length down the middle, and I do have some observations about parking, which can be indicative of attendance, perhaps.

I would characterize the entire experience, Thursday - Saturday, as "York-lite." My first indicator that things were different was the lack of aggressive jockeying for position of off-loading vendors early Wednesday morning and early Thursday morning. Also, the parking lots - the ones viewable from my vantage point - seemed to have room.

As I sat at my booth by the door, I obsrved that most people were carrying packages with them throughout the hall as well as when exiting. Yet, there did not appear to be many carrying the large locomotive boxes out with them, though some did. (I consider such freight as bellwethers of how freely money is being spent, though that is only a personal guess-point.)

Noteworthy to me was the increased (since I first became a vendor, in 2005) number of the young, and by "young" I refer to children (incl. toddlers,) pre-teens, teenagers  (who actually seemed interested in the table tops of merchandise), and 20-somethings and 30-somethings, especially.

There was plenty of room for strolling the aisles, with no need for jostling or tempers flaring.

And I was not hit by any cropdusting, which may indicate less crowding or possibly better diets and improved courtesy.

Saturday was nearly, as I would term it, nearly vacant of customers (as opposed to tourists.)

FrankM

Layout Refinements

Mind, all of that is from my limited perspective next to one door in one hall.

I was only there Thursday and part of Friday, but I would agree with Moonson's (Frank's) observations.

OK guys....so from what other in the know have posted I can attend the Fall meet for around $10 as a guest.....right??  If that is what it will truly cost to see if this event is what it's made out to be.....I may call you all on it.  So.......

If someone pre-registers you as a guest, the admission is $12 or $13.50 (depending on whether they pre-register by mail or online).  If you are registered at the door, it is $20 (a member still has to register you as a guest).  These are the same admission prices a member pays.  Check out the guest requirements on page 5 of this past meet's registration booklet.

If you are interested in going, I would be happy to sign you in some time.

Andy

I wasn't able to make this show.
I wonder how the crowds were in the member halls.

C W, The crowds were the same as usual. i couldn't tell any difference from the past two or three years or so. I don't know how well you know Alan Rubin, but he is having his stomach stapled this week. he wasn't at York for the first time in a long time. Ed

You are all totally forgeting the IMPORTANT STUFF! How many attendees were wearing railroad logo underwear???

Another perspective...the RV population seems to be shrinking meet by meet.

So much so that wife and I are rethinking our arrival time strategy and corresponding departure time from Michigan for next time. 

Of course, fuel cost/economy, rising tolls(), et al, play into that, too. 

With apologies to those who have a different pespective, I think the overall economy...the main factor... is still rather poopy for hobby shows/meets like York.  Public shows...like Trainfest in Milwaukee...will continue to draw crowds because it is eye-candy for all ages, tire-kickers welcome.  A members-only meet like York is really all about buying and selling among the choir members. 

Yet, I recall someone posted attendance figures for the last few York meets...and they were quite consistent/flat.

Whatever...

KD

I noticed the same thing, KD.  As I noted here or in another York Meet thread, I make it a point to check all the parking areas on Thursdays and Fridays as a sort of "informal gauge" of attendance.  I can remember the times, not too many years ago, when the parking areas were filled to overflowing, and if you didn't arrive early you had quite a hike to get to some halls.  That is no longer true.

Hotels, as well, although my feeling is that there are far more to choose from these days, pretty much in the immediate area.  Our OGR crew stayed at the Best Western--five minutes from the fairgrounds and adjacent to Fridays.  Used to be packed with guests, based on the parking lot at night, but in recent times there is plenty of parking available at all hours.

Nobody will ever convince me that participation isn't gradually diminishing.  I don't think that's a good thing, but I also don't think it's necessarily bad and it's certainly not unexpected.  After all, the hobby itself has changed so there's no reason to doubt that changes will also be evident in events connected to the hobby.

Heck.  How many attendees were wearing underwear at all???

Same here.....it's just change.....the only constant. The net with it's retail and auction sites, social medias impact and even this BB have all changed the way we participate in our hobbies.  I remember when you NEEDED to go to RCHTA (now iHobby)  and today many of the manufactures don't feel the need to go. One plastic company did their version of iHobby on Face Book!!

Not the death bell....but change.....

I've never attended York but always enjoyed all the postings about it.  This time around folks seemed to be less excited.  In the past there were a lot of good natured debates over the health virtues of SCRAPPLE.  This time nothing nor was anything mentioned about those healthy funnel cakes.  At least Thursday @ Friday's seemed to be as festive as ever. 

This was my 3rd York show, and I have to say, I was very disappointed with this year. Due to work I have to go on Sat.  I pay the same money as everyone else, and I get there before the doors open. By 10:30 half of the vendors are packing up, and by noon, you may as well call it a day. Found nothing there, and they couldn't be bothered to help you. I honestly feel that if they are going to do this, and they did that last time too, it should be half price or just cancel sat.  It was a GIANT waste of money and the 2 hrs I traveled on top of it. At least last time they made an annoucement that they had to wait till 2 to pack up, it didn't stop them but it helped a little. Just venting.....But it is wrong to make the Saturday people feel like an inconvenence.

Wild Mary, I did have my first Pumpkin Funnel Cake, very fine. I was not there Saturday but I do emphatise with those  that were. My wife and daughter and I spent the day there Thursday and had a really great time. Bought lots of stuff and got some great ideas. Next time we would like to spend two days there. We were moving pretty quick and did not get to see it all. I would like to be able to meander and chat instead of rushing. It was a great show. 

Good evening folks!

 The event was the fourth I have attended. And, I enjoyed it as much as my first{Oct '10}. Based on what I can remember, the first event was more crowded. Each has seemed to get easier to move around. But, I have also adjusted my priorities to which halls I visit first. One thing I participate in with friends, is car pooling into the parking lot. Maybe more people are doing the same{???}.

 Oddly, I found getting around the Orange, Brown and Purple Halls relatively easy. The member halls seemed busier, but that may have to do with my adjusting my schedule.

 While I had to be cautious with my money, there was no shortage of what was on my list {I had to pass on several items I really wanted... PW H-24-66 and an MTH WMRy H-9   - more money than I could afford}.

 I really appreciated the EDTCA changing the stance on cell phone use {thanks to those here helped get that accomplished... you know who you are }. Maybe the picture rule will be next??? Enjoyed talking with members and dealers. I learned some more about this great hobby and the people who love it.

 Younger attendee's{teens and twenties}, I also noticed this. This could be a good sign. Time will tell. I will be keeping an eye out for this again in October.

 While I have purchased a few things over time via an online auction site, I really prefer the one on one interaction {on top of seeing the item first hand}. It's all about the people, IMHO. 

 I will continue to enjoy attending the meets.