So Whats The Point?

More fun than cleaning the cat litter box!

That's like everything else.  One person can love a particular car (okay, "automobile"), another would absolutely hate the exact same car.  I don't have anything to post these days, so I read, but stay quiet.  I think folks would get sick of me posting "I love my trains" every day.  BUT, there are those who are just crazy about their toys and the hobby, me included!

 

Carlton

Watching the joy in my boy's eye's.

No different than parents yelling at the umps in a little league game.

I guess some people's enjoyment is pointing out that if everybody doesn't like or behave in the same manner as you, then something must be wrong with them

 

I would rather the manufacturer make what I want or make an item correctly than to flood the market with bogus paint schemes and incorrect models.  I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

If they didn't make what you want, what would you know, besides troll for sport?

 

You want folks to let you have your fun, then let them have that right too.

 

If we didn't complain about this stuff, then manufacturers would be content to not improve anything.

 

Toyota would have never made it out of Japan if people were content with Fords and GMs that broke down all the time.

 

I think we have pretty amazing O scale trains these days because model railroaders complained and demanded.

Rick,

 

I think that the point is that most of us do enjoy the hobby. 

 

I buy what I like.  If Lionel or MTH doesn't offer the detail I want (most of the time), I buy from someone else.  Many folks are happy with the Lionel and MTH detail and thats cool too. 

 

My thought is that if someone doesn't enjoy the hobby, then maybe they should find a different hobby.

 

Jim

The enjoyment (or frustration) is up to us with the choices we make. If we choose to agonize over the things you listed, obviously we will not reap the benefits of the hobby: fun, relaxation, stress relief, camaraderie with friends, increased modeling skills, etc. One of your items was defective trains. I've seen so many posts here with folks angry and fed up over high-tech electronics which don't work on brand-new engines, I'd be reluctant to buy any new stuff if I didn't have local expertise to help me out if they didn't work. So... bottom line is you avoid the stuff that upsets you, and concentrate on the stuff that's fun - all the time. If that takes you down to running postwar trains on a 4x8 board, at least you are now having fun.    

I wasn't directing my topic toward anyone personally Bob,and I'm not "trolling". I think the point I made is valid, I never said it was wrong to complain, just that it seems alot of folks are unhappy. My impression of this hobby after joining, or reading the forum is quite different than what it was prior. The animocity displayed in your post is my "case in point".

Animosity, no hatred meant or shown from my end I can tell you that.  I'm not questioning why some forumites don't get in step with others social tendencies.

 

Rick, your topic is pointed at those who don't agree with your take on things and if folks disagree then they're "outed" in these types of socially slanted posts.

 

With your very first statement you have cut the legs out from under all those that have contributed on the 2-rail and 3RS forums, because THAT'S our purpose...to make right all the paint jobs, rivets, and other incorrect details that make a model what it is.

 

Instead of folks posting topic after topic about the social tendencies (i.e. those 3 topics on age) of fellow forumites, I'd rather see more posts on "how-tos" and photos of their accomplishments and work.

 

I'd like to see this forum be more than another Facebook.  Let's talk about laying track, models and their prototypical counterparts, and running trains.

The complaining is a function of the price. For the kind of money we're spending on high-end scale trains, we expect them to: (1) actually be scale models; and (2) work like they are supposed to out of the box. A thousand bucks is a lot of money; you don't want to open the box and find something that doesn't look right and doesn't work right. Everybody's got their own standards; you don't hear a lot of complaining about Williams, or about the low-end stuff from the big guys, because all it's supposed to do is go forward and back, blow the horn, and look sort of like a real train. And as a couple of folks have already pointed out, the manufacturers aren't going to improve unless we let them know we want better. 

As long as that middle rail is there it can't be "prototypical".

 

There are plenty of 3-rail items that are more prototypical than equivalent 2-rail items.

 

 

The above post smacks of snobbery.

 

Just because your locomotive or rolling stock is 2 rail does'nt make it better than a 3 rail model.

I think you touched on one of the biggest attractions of traditional trains, be they original or reproduction. Back when toy trains didn't try to be anything other than toys, there was less to compain about when it came to lack of detail. No matter how much manufacturers try, they will never reach perfect realism. The closer they get, the more imperfections seem to contradict their efforts. My own interest evolved (or devolved?) from scale to postwar to tinplate. Another hobby of mine is woodworking with antique tools. Simpler, less complicated things allow me to relax by escaping the stresses of the modern world.

Three rail track is not prototypical.  So what?  Get over it.

 

Pete

That is the point: there is no point... Friedrich Nietzsche

http://www.quotationspage.com/.../Friedrich_Nietzsche

Want a point? Buy a knife ... (I said that)

Ricardo(Mr. O),

 

I doubt many would vent here, just for the **** of it. This hobby has a significant emotional component, and passion is it's backbone. ****  with those deep feelings and you've got an angry person, ready to unload(vent).

 

Fess up, you've spilled your guts, here, haven't you?

 

 

Just keeping it real, lad.

 

 

Rick

 

 

And also that the distance between the rails is 1.1771-inches NOT 1.25-inches!

Good point!

Also, if you don't have an actual diesel engine, or coal-fired boiler, it's not "prototypical"

There's a Railking and Lionmaster Line for those who don't like scale lengths and scale fuel tanks.

The Price Gouging is the point.

I am just glad we have all these choices, I thought the third rail was prototypical in New York back in the early days of Lionel.

Absolutely, I suppose i worded my statement wrong,my apologies to those who I offended. It just seems a though there is more wrong with the hobby than right lately.

 

This hobby has so many sub-categories. it is really incredible. Some things I do not notice at all on an engine or layout are of huge importance to others. I have to agree with Nick.

 

We are all defensive of our niche and have a hard time understanding others views...nature of the beast. I look forward to meeting members of each group as the years go by. Im sure through communication I will gain a better understanding of the following groups and respect even more their dedication to their aspect of model trains. Keep that passion burning, keep posting and most importantly share your passion and thoughts through this forum. 

 

Rivet counters, two railers, tin platers, collectors, builders, DCS people, Legacy people, conventional runners, weekend warriors, repairers, restorers, accessory freaks, On30 people, hi railers, scale runners, train spotters, Christmas only runners, steam people, diesel people, mTH people, Lionel people....the list goes on.

 

I consider my self a "fun runner". My layout and roster is a mix of all the above in various ways.  I am by no means an expert in any category except one; I am extremely gifted at having a blast almost every day with my trains. 

 

So please...keep that passion fueled and enjoy the heck out of whatever it is about trains  that fuels that passion.

 

Respectfully,

With all respect due to a fellow train lover....are you a member of the OCD train club? Relax a little; for those among us like yourself its should be a fun challenge to buy and run and modify the most detailed, accurate, and exacting reproductions available and then fine tune them to complete reliability. (The rest of us will all then be buying "Rick-O" trains) For many others enjoyment will come from replicas that look like tin cans (no offense intended - just making a point) or mismatched scale Santa and Polar Express figures, etc. Then then there are people like me, who tried to be scale-ish and end up putting microwave and cell phone towers next to coaling towers under WWII airplanes while the Mini Cooper drives by. Point is, it is all good - and great fun if you keep it in perspective.

Theres plenty of enjoyment left in the hobby. I don't think anyone has seriously suggested there is not. Or, they would not be here on the forum. Theres always room for improvement. Theres no such thing as perfect and with an increase in complexity and especially cost, I think, at times, there are "unrealistic" expectations that go along with that. I don't get burned up over a issue with a $100.00 engine. That being said, when the prices inch upward, close to that of more practical ( non hobby) costs, people start making comparisons of warranties, quality, representations etc. It's pretty inevitable. I don't see anyone complaining about an old MPC engine or tinplate.

At the same time, few would vote with their wallets to walk away from future purchases. So, round and round we go. It's simply human nature.

Where's the enjoyment in this hobby? Well, I guess it depends on your attitude towards "problems"

• If the rivets are wrong . . . it probably doesn't matter if the loco is short a few, etc., but when it does, there is fun in installing the correct number.
• If the paint's incorrect . . . I'll have fun re-painting it (I often do anyway).
• If the pilot is wrong or the fuel tank is too high, it might not matter that much, but again, when it does (e.g., my Legacy Berkshire's cab) it is fun to fix it.
• If the marker lights shouldn't be there . . . well they are, and they look good or I just remove them.
• If the manufacturer isn't making what I want . . . I enjoy dreaming and hoping they will.
• If my trains are defective, I fix them or just run something else - I've had 12 go defective of which 5 were unrepairable by me - out of 88 bought -- and I just made those 5 shelf queens (I have another 6 shelf queens I bought knowing they were defective).  Five out of 88 is not a bad ratio over a 7+ year period: the glass is a lot more than half full.
• If the remote doesn't work or the software is incompatable: never happens at my house, I run only conventional.
• As to Rich Melvin - if he removes Mars from the night sky, I might get upset (although I would be in awe of the power he has).  But as to NKP 765, well, as they say: "his RR, his rules."

Just call me Lee "PollyAnna" Willis  

"tried to be scale-ish and end up putting microwave and cell phone towers next to coaling towers under WWII airplanes while the Mini Cooper drives by. Point is, it is all good - and great fun if you keep it in perspective."

 

Ha Ha  Michael...you sure sound like me.

As for the center rail not being prototypical, a few months ago someone posted a photo of a railroad in France with a center powered rail (so much for that arguement). 

And if you are tired of your trains because they are not prototypically correct, or mising a rivet here or a MARS light there, you can just box 'em up and send 'em to me.  I'll give them a good home regardless of their so-called flaws.

This forum is facebook now. 

 

Take a look at this thread as evidence. 

 

And so many people are so new they can't even spot the old trolls registering under new names.  And the toyboy vs scale maven immature snips and snipes never end.   But it is hilarious.

To me this just illustrates the fact that O gauge trains have gotten too scale oriented. Don't get me wrong, I like scale. But no matter how you 'scalify' them, they will still run on 3 rail track with all the compromises that that entails. I have come to the conclusion that O gauge trains should be used appropriately. They should remain semi-scale to take advantage of their biggest asset- big trains in small space. Once they get too big you might as well do 2-rail. I can't wait to hear people gripe about how unrealistic these new scale auto racks look on their O-54 or O-72 curves. My solution was simple. I enjoy semi-scale toy trains for nostalgic purposes and I model HO to get my scale modeling fix covered. I enjoy it so much more this way than when I was trying to make O or S do everything. Just my 2 cents...

Well, personally, while I have a lot of traditional, I don't run them much.  I like scale a lot.  If I want a locomotive that will fit a small space, I get a scale model of a small loco. 

Cool!  That must mean your steamers run on coal or oil and your diesels run on diesel.    Do they sand the tracks when they start up too?  

 

All kidding aside, I can understand why some people just cant get past that 3rd rail but there are a LOT of compromises we make to create our railroad worlds.  What one person is willing to overlook, another isn't.  You don't like the 3rd rail but I bet you compromise somewhere else that would appall someone else.  In the end neither one of you is wrong.

 

As for a middle rail...  Those cog railways at Mt. Washington (New Hampshire) and Pikes Peak (Colorado) look pretty close to 3 rail...   

I'm betting you are speaking from personal experience.    Isn't it a violation of the TOS to register a phony account or have more than one?  Just asking.

Thank god...VOX is back in business!!!  ENJOY GUYS!!!  Love the word TROLL!!!

I like 3 rail track - would not have it any other way.

The forum actually sometimes serves to eliminate frustration.  I have on several occasions been frustrated by problems with my engines. I posted the problem here and have been amazed how often i get a solution.  No matter how seemingly unique the problem I have encountered, someone, often RickO, has known the problem and told me how to fix it.