Sorting O27 from 1:48 on ebay?

You'll have to know the catalog number for Lionel and read the description from the website. Here's the explanation from page 5 of the Lionel 2014 Signature Edition catalog. They also call scale "Standard O" for older products.

If you're trying to avoid the traditional 027 sized rolling stock, you will want to stay away from:

Lionel MPC (Moonman gave you great advice. Look up the Part#)

Atlas Industrial Rail

MTH Rugged Rails

MTH Rail King Ready-to-Run.

Williams by Bachmann Traditional Line

Ready Made Trains

Marx

K-Line, if the box doesn't say "O Scale Classics"

This isn't 100%,  but should help you steer clear of most of the small 027 rolling stock.

Scale includes:

MTH Premier 

Weaver

Atlas Master Line and Steam Era Classics

Golden Gate Depot / 3rd Rail

Pecos River

Williams Crown

Gilly

Gilly,

Is Atlas 'O' Trainman, besides their Premier Master Line Series, also a full 1:48 scale size?

Ralph

You are mixing apples and oranges!  IE, track gauge and scale.    O27 refers to O gauge track which 1 1/4 inches between the rails.    ALL O gauge track is 1 1/4 inches between the rails.   027 refers to the diameter of the circle that a certain snap track makes.   All this track is nominally 1:48 scale.

The various size cars are something totally different.   Lionel made all sorts of things in memory that were undersize and not to scale.    The cars run on 1:48 track but the size might be 1:60 or 1:72 or who knows.    And there is no consistancy that I can figure out with the size.    they are not all the same scale.

the best solution is to ask but even then it is hard to decipher.   You can ask if the ore cars are smaller and the anwer might be yes --- but then all ore cars are smaller in length.

As for Atlas Trainman, I think they are all 1:48 proportions.    The foundation of the line, the gondola, 40 ft boxcars and I think a caboose are the same size and details as the Atlas cars produced in the 80s which are full O scale.

prrjim,

there's no fruit baskets happening here. The OP wanted to know how to interpret manufacturer's descriptions to find cars that are closest to scale, the larger sized cars.

Even on the Atlas Trainman, when you compare the length of a car to the actual car, it's not true scale, but it is larger or closer than others.

ask seller to put a ruler in picture and you decide

Thanks Gents.

This makes it less of a gamble to order used cars.

I am just trying to avoid the obviously smaller "toy" sized cars.

I do understand the gauge vs scale difference, it is just the way these boxes are labeled that seemed to turn ebay buying into a crap-shoot as to "more realistic" car dimensions vs the small O27 toy versions.  The sizes differences are quite striking when placed side-by-side.  Actually to the point of looking silly.  Well I have a few garage sale items now.  Thanks for the help.  I appreciate the collection names and lists you provided.

Thank you all, Gentlemen.

I say, for the price of such beauties, if, they area marked as 1:48 scale size, then they ought to be 1:48 scale size.

I know, there maybe variances in the production process, but hey, make them to scale size, which will have to cost more, due to retooling!!!!
Ralph

FWIW, one of the RMT products that is actually scale sized are the ore cars.  I bought a bunch of them when RMT was selling them at $10/ea.  They are identically sized to the MTH Premier and Lionel scale cars, and have very good detailing and paint as well.

K-Line's ore cars are all scale, being clones of the Atlas 2-rail cars from the 1970's. Same goes for MTH (whether RailKing or Premier), and RMT (which are K-Line cars). The ony ones that might be different are Lionel's and that's because they are narrower than the others.

One point of confusion is that models of smaller prototypes, such as ore cars, are capable of negotiating 0-27 (meaning 13.5" radius) curves, and are thus referred to as "0-027", meaning they'll run on both types of curves.

This is a holdover from the era when the only kinds of curves available were 27" on lightweight rail 7/16" high and 31" with heavier rail 11/16" high, but little if anything was truly 1:48 scale in all the pertinent measurements. The introduction of "scale" equipment muddied the waters, since some of those cars (mostly 40-foot) could still travel through 0-27 curves without derailing, and were sometimes described as being compatible with those curves.

But there wasn't (and still isn't) a hard-and-fast rule clearly differentiating equipment that was "0/027 compatible" because it was deliberately undersized to match postwar-era toy trains, and "0/027 compatible" because the scale-sized model is still small enough to run through an 027 curve without derailing. 

So in the absence of a standard tailored to someone with no experience in this part of the hobby, your greatest asset is...a forum like this one to ask questions about it

---PCJ

For pretty much all manufacturers ore cars are scale or too close to really call.  For all other items a good rule of thumb is:

K-Line: outside of the ore cars all scale items will have boxes labeled "O-Scale".  Everything else won't be scale (1:48).

MTH: Premier items are all scale and product numbers begin with "20" ie: 20-xxxxx.

        Railking cabooses are scale as are the operating dump cars (even though they don't really have a real life prototype).   The only difference between the premier line on these cars is essentially the  brake lines.  Railking engines can be scale and those which are will be advertised as "Railking Scale".  Everything else is not scale.

Lionel: rolling stock items beginning with 6-17xxxx or 6-27xxxx are scale.  The rest are not.

Weaver: all scale

I'm sure there are more distinctions but what I have here will give you a good start.   You can also reference the Legacy K-Line site at http://www.legacykline.com/apps/kl/catalog.html

---Greg

Yes they are scale. Just less add-on details. More like the RailKing Scale product line.

Gilly

When I changed from HO to O 3 rail in 1993 or so....I learned the hard way about scale, Traditional and 'Baby' size as I call it......

I learned via buying mistakes......not sure if there is a 100% perfect way to know what is what on ebay as sellers often do not know what they are selling. I now know what items are what size.......but if there is a perfest method wish I'd known about it!!!

Years ago there was an inside joke so to say. It went, "There are four sizes of rolling stock. They are, 1) Scale 2) Semi Scale 3) Traditional 4) K-Line"

The same problems were common place in the early days of prewar as well.                                                                     

Absolutely the best course of action when you are in doubt as to the size of the item you plan to bid on or purchase.  I have done this on numerous occasions and it has been worth the effort.

One other thing that I've suggested previously: Look at the wheels.

Whether the car is scale, traditional, or whatever, the wheels are the same size. If the wheel looks awfully large for the size of the car, it is the smaller O27/traditional size car.

It takes a little while to develop a feel for this.

This might help. Scale size is:

-Lionel Standard O

-MTH Premier

-K-Line freight cars starting with numeral 7

-all K-Line tank cars

-K-Line aluminum passenger cars (15 inchers are only 60 feet in scale)

-Atlas master and Trainman

-almost all Weaver

-almost all brass

-some MTH locos labeled as RailKing scale

-AMT/KMT F-7 locos and tank cars

-Williams Train masters, and F-7, and GP-7/9, and 72 foot passenger cars

-Marx lithographed metal Santa Fe number 21 is almost scale

-Lionel postwar F-3 and all copies of it (MTH/Williams) need only 1/8 inch of height to be scale s1ze

Traditional/O-27/semi scale. These are all over the place size - wise, but are all smaller than full scale

-most postwar Lionel, except for certain ;locomotives (Trainmaster, GP-7 and the F-3 is close to scale)

-K-Line that starts with numeral 6

-Rail King

-Marx and K-Line made from Marx molds

-RMT

-AMT/KMT except for the F-7 locos

-Most Williams freight cars

-Unique Arts and most lithographed trains, with the rare exception that the UA Rock Island diesel seems larger than scale

And Subway sandwiches are not to scale either. Instead of really being a full foot, they are only about 10 1/2 inches. Deceit is everywhere!

Even on the Atlas Trainman, when you compare the length of a car to the actual car, it's not true scale

Moonman

Could you please clarify what you mean by that?

Railking cabooses are scale as are the operating dump cars (even though they don't really have a real life prototype)

Greg

The MTH Rail King and Premier operating dump cars are based on a Difco prototype.

One more thing worth noting, despite what any of the boxes might say K-Line never made an O scale box car model!

There are over 200 differently tooled O scale freight cars that have been produced since the 1990s.  Anyone interested in scale freight cars is welcome to read the O Scale Freight Car Guide series.  It is intended to be a central reference point for all of the 1:48 scale freight cars made in recent years.  In a addition to an overview of all the models of the various types of freight cars we have benefited from photos and information posted by forum members and comments from industry insiders.

https://ogrforum.com/t...le-freight-car-guide

I thought Williams PA-1, FA-1, GP-38, SD-45 were scale????

(+ GG-1 and Hudson scale versions)

I know the GP-30 and RS-3 are scale for sure....just to muddy the water and show how tough it can be at times....

You are right, Dave. I was thinking of Williams rolling stock, box cars and the like. The majority of Williams diesels are full scale size, but the majority of diecast steamers are not.

Some Williams diesels are called "scale sized" by them - Dash-9, EMD SD's - but they are

not.

They are short by a couple of inches. 

------

Familiarity with the various manufacturers history, items, catalogues and so forth is

the best way to determine what is what. This takes years of spending WAY too much time looking at catalogues, magazines and the like (guilty). Most of us "old heads" seldom make

a scale-mistake, as we have simply developed a feel for it - the trucks look a little large,

the item sits too high, the locos proportions are off, and so forth. This is not foolproof,

but it's close.

MTH and Atlas are, I guess, the most helpful about this with an informative numbering

system like MTH ("20-" means Scale; "30-" means not so much unless it is marked

"RailKing Scale" - and the RK USRA 0-8-0 is an exception: it has always been just "RK", but it's 1:48), or with very clear product line distinctions like Atlas.

The old K-line 1:58 line can bite you unless you have an item number. These scale locos were so well-done that they can fool a lot of us, at least at first. There was a USRA

4-6-2 and 2-8-2, and a 1:58 Allegheny. There were some very presentable Hudsons -

NYC-derived, but re-detailed for other roads. I can spot it immediately, but some

newer guys don't. 

A friend asked me lately if a K-line 2-8-2 on auction was scale or 1:58; the photos 

were not great, and I had to search for the item number on the 'Net to find out. 

A lot of Rail King is scale, but not all of it.