Space for a layout!! Found easily....

I've seen several attic layouts in the magazines but I don't know as I have ever seen a crawl space one.  Please keep us posted if you go ahead with this project.  the 22x68 sounds terrific, I am trying to envision the 22" tall part.  Good luck!

"Still think you have no space for a layout? Check out this video from British Railway Modelling magazine and see where Dennis Parker of Great Britain built his--and how he gets into it!"

http://cprailmmsub.blogspot.ca...ve-no-space-for.html

John Allen's Gore and Daphidid was a crawl space layout. He only excavated the walkways and lined it with concrete.

A conditioned crawlspace for a layout sounds like a very interesting possibility, if you could excavate aisleways. If a full-height aisle isn't practical, perhaps you could scoot back and forth (sitting) on a wheeled cart. I would be interested to know about the spacing of the floor framing supports. Any potential for outside access to facilitate construction?

I think, before I spent 10K on the crawlspace, I would opt to build another 16 x 28 shed or the like for a real layout....though I really am thinking about redoing the crawl space. The rest of the story was NOT tongue in cheek.....the insulation is terrible, and the humidity rate yesterday was 77% under there. (I bought a small, wireless unit last week to check it!)

 

My sister just had her's redone....joist work, mold and insulation removal, liner etc.....$12k! NOT Dryzone either. I know another family who did pay Dryzone $14K for space remediation.

 

Anyone on here redo their crawl in the new fashion, and comments? After all, what is it anyway, if done correctly......but a short basement!

 

Gotta run, shop was 38 deg and I turned on the heat to go out and run trains later.  Maybe it is up to 55 deg by now!

 

Take care, Greg

Greg.....

 

I think your idea to build a separate place for a layout is much better than the crawl space idea...not that you were really considering it for the layout space anyway.  I had researched the closed crawl space concept a few years ago and have kept up with it somewhat through current theory.  The idea basically is to seal up the crawl space from any contact or affect from the ground.  No vents and a proper barrier to prevent moisture from the ground from entering as much as possible.  In addition, there would be no insulation under the floor joints.  As a side note, in our part of the country I have never seen "poles" holding up insulation under the floor.  Around here the insulation is usually held in place physically with bands of metal or wire.  Anyway, the closed crawl space once installed is then allowed to interact with the heating and cooling system where air exchange from the H/C system "conditions" the crawl space and interchanges air in that space with the rest of the house.  The idea is in the summer the naturally cooler air in the space will help make the air conditioner work less and in the winter the warmer crawl space will keep the floors warmer and envelop the home with warmer air thus helping the heating unit work less.  On a side note, I had considered doing something like this but because I am 59 years old, I would never live to see the return on my investment....BUT....if I were in my thirties or up to late forties, I would consider it...

 

Alan

Uh, no. One of the problems with this model RR'ing hobby, and especially those of us in

the above-1:87 scales, is the cramped, crowded, squeeze-by, "just one more track right

here" conditions. If you can't stand up, and you can't walk around - British crawlspace

layout notwithstanding - try a smaller scale in a bedroom, I'd say.

"...not that you were really considering it for the layout space anyway"

Alan, it is good to know that someone did "get it."

Thanks for the reply also. Take care, Greg

(Oh yeah, Dry Zone.....quote just came, $9474.00 Right. )

Hi Greg,

 

I would go with a nice storage shed and make a train room out or it.I'm sure it will be pretty expensive but it can serve two purposes. Build your train tables and use the underneath for storage. 

 

link       http://steelarchbuildings.com/...uilding-products.php

 

 

Alex

I've had my layout in a crawlspace for over 10 years. 4'high, carpeted over cement. It is a partial (30' x 27')with the regular portion of the basement 8'high. When I'm done playing I just close a set of doors to the entrance and it's hidden. No expensive framework and no engine drops such as a regular layout might encounter. I'm 73 and can still navigate by crawling around in there. One does what one has to do to get a layout going! I have some photos posted on the Mid America 3 Railers site. Joe

After realizing we had a bad moisture problem under our house, I also did some research and settled on a closed crawlspace.  The relative humidity was hovering up around 90% at times with the traditional system - and I was very diligent about keeping the vents on the side of the house open from spring through fall.  I did the work myself, although it was a pain in the back (literally).  Now, the relative humidity never exceeds the magical 60%, and it only approaches that during the humid spring days when neither the heat or AC is running.  I also briefly considered a crawlspace railroad, but decided the extra floor space wasn't worth giving up standing headroom.  I negotiated layout space in our storage room, instead.

 

Regardless of where you decide to build your railroad, I do recommend that you proceed with the closed crawlspace for your house.  If it is humid enough to cause problems with your insulation, it is humid enough to eventually cause problems with the structure.  Also, you might find that by storing other stuff down in the improved crawlspace, you can gain enough room to build a layout somewhere in the house (instead of underneath it).  Just my two cents...

I think you will get a stiff neck laying on your belly or side to run trains.

.....

Dennis

Just 22" of top-to-bottom working space is not something I could or would be able to work with for a layout...storage, perhaps, if the other conditions are stable enough, but definitely not for an operating layout.  I'm long past the age of the requisite physical dexterity and ability.

Get what?  Your thread title indicates, quite clearly, that you were/are considering using the space for a layout.

Allan,

 

The piece was written in a satirical manner due to 1) the high cost to put a crawl space into a "living area" - which is what Dry Zone and others look to do, and the height of about 22".

 

While they say a DryZoned "basement/crawlspace" could be used as a living area, at no time was my intent to put trains down there (other than I am told I could do so since the humidity year round will be about 50% and the temp about 55 deg) either as a layout or for storage. But one night sitting here, it appeared to be a topic to generate conversation on both fronts. It did, and I am glad for that.

 

Could it be any worse than some other topics I see from time to time?

 

The parts about the $10K cost, the 22" height (note "small guests") and the comment about "many of you have done the same thing" with the smiley face were, I thought, the keys to knowing it was in jest.

 

I see that Leaving Tracks picked up on it right away, (plus my response in my second post should have sealed my real intent!) and Dennis and others also knew of the drawbacks of such a scheme....though I have seen on here many times, others who perhaps went to extremes to gain room just for trains.

 

Witness the reply from Rigatoni, who appears to not mind a small space. I must admit that 4' high is a much nicer height to deal with than 22". As Dennis says....constantly on the belly or back - at 66, not my idea of fun.

 

And so, seeing the tongue-in-cheek, Alan knew the point: as did you it appears since you saw that 22" and the age thing (plus the $10K) sort of precluded the program from being a worth while train project.

 

As for the title, well, you gotta do what you gotta do to get readers interested. As an editor, you know that! ;-) Thanks for reading and participating. Note: there is an Alan and an Allan in this discussion, do not get them confused.

 

Later, Greg

(James, I would like to contact you via your email off line, if ok with you.)

That's fine Greg... I'm shooting you an email right now.