Sparking Trains

Any input on this? See my edit for more comments in the original post. Thanks!

I would try Rail Zip on the center rail.

http://www.supergluecorp.com/?q=zap/zap-rail-zip

Some hobbyists are concerned that it contains naphtha, but when used as the manufacturer instructs, it is safe in my humble opinion. You might try a drop on the pins inside the center rail rollers.

Take care, Joe.

Sometimes the issue is a thing I call 'dry rail'.  Think about the 'contact' patch of the little roller and the rounded top of the rail, pretty small surface.  We spend a great deal of time 'cleaning' the wheels and the rail to make sure everything is running smoothly, but . . . . Using rail zip as suggested adds just a little better chance of getting good contact and stops the sparking.  I use a product that is available from most beauty supply stores its made for cleaning / lubricating hair clippers /electric shavers.  Its called Wahl oil.  Russ

Be sure you also clean the axles of the pickup rollers in addition to the roller surfaces.

.....

Dennis

How do you apply this? Do you just leave a film on the track?

Dale H

I had a similar problem a few years ago. I put oil on the center rail and it fix

ed the problem. Rails seemed a little rough and light rust. Got a lot of negative replays from the forum but the issue has not returned.

My apologies for not getting back here sooner. 

I've tried Rail Zip before and found it to make a mess and not really fix the problem. I'd be willing to try it again but am concerned after past experience.

Haven't used Wahl oil, will have to check that out. 

Anyone think that it could just be the rollers bouncing on the joints and overall? I've also seen this same thing on the club layout

Rail Zip needs to be applied and allowed sit on the rails overnight, then the excess is wiped off.  It shouldn't be a messy process.  Good luck finding your solution to the sparking.

Anyone think that it could just be the rollers bouncing on the joints and overall?

Yes.  The contact between a roller and a tubular rail is a tiny point.  Flat-top rails means it would be a thin line.  The higher the motor's current drain, the larger the sparks.  Pre- & post-war Lionels made a lot of sparks at high speeds.

Hmmm... My roster is almost entirely postwar Lionel, and I never have that problem.

SJC, What type of oil are you using to oil your pick up roller pins ? They should be well lubricated, but some types of oil don't conduct electricity very well. Also look at the inside edges of the flanges of all your wheels. Are there any spark marks which are being created when the train is traveling through your switch tracks? Is your layout in a humid basement ? 

It appears to me as not enough track feeds, only one outside rail used as common or insufficient transformer power.

The amperage draw required by the train is not readily available.

Review the wiring and power infrastructure, since cleaning wheels and track hasn't worked.

On another thought, if you have used any lubricants with PTFE, that would cause a conductivity problem. Try cleaning the roller and pin area with alcohol. Wad up a cloth around it a flush it out.

I used a lube like that on passenger cars one time and they commenced to blinking immediately. Worse, if the axles were lubed with such a product, the common or ground will be disrupted also. PTFE is dielectric.

Plain, simple oil is all that is needed.

I have a very small layout - just a few ovals and switches on a 4x8. Not much. 

Each loop has two feeds which I've always found suffiencent. May be worth trying another over the long weekend. 

I use Labelle oil on the axles and rollers. Been using the same stuff for years without a problem. I guess I'll give the Rail Zip a shot and see what happens. 

Granted I'm not an electrical expert but I would think there is a bigger current draw when cruise control is on, etc vs. off when there is less smoke and less juice needed to run the train. Without cruise control is when the sparking is at it's worst (at high speeds). 

Which number LaBelle? They have both plain and one with additive.

I use four pairs of feeds on 4 x 8's opposite one another.

Alcohol is just fine, really. A good wipe with a wet then a dry.

Ok, test one. get a can of Radio Shack Tuner Cleaner\Lubricant.

Put a cloth near each roller and axle bearing area and spray the @#$% out of it with tuner cleaner with the straw on the nozzle.

Then, put it on the track and test for sparks.

That will remove a lot of what's in there.

#10 sewing machine oil is all that you need.

Carl,

This is the oil I have. I believe it is Labelle. I'm just about out so a restock will be necessary within the near future. 

As I was cleaning rollers recently, I was thinking a shot of contact cleaner in the roller would be a good idea. Will do so this weekend. Thanks. 

That wouldn't have PTFE. Most of their new products have it.

It's just that the issue occurs on another layout that keeps me thinking it's the engine contacts.

The tuner cleaner is a cheap enough to give it try and see if it helps.

There are just so many variables as mentioned that you have to start somewhere. The fact that they spark on the club layout makes me think it's the engine.

My Thomas LionelChief has the worst wheels. I have to use a Dremel and wire brush a couple of times a year on the wheels to keep that running good. It gets a lot of run time because he's a useful engine...and the grandkids like it a lot.

Shoot gunrunner or GGG an email and ask them if there's anything in the PS2\3 that would cause the sparking. Loose wire, board or something.

Anyway, I would start with an engine first before moving to infrastructure.

Carl,

Thanks for the tips. Will try the contact cleaner.

I personally would be more willing to lean toward the engine it it was just a specific engine...it is all of my MTH engines, some basically brand new that don't have the dual pick up rollers on each truck. I figured the engines with two rollers on the entire engine had less contact and perhaps were bouncing or "skipping" a bit once they really got at high speeds.

Can you or anyone point to my question above regarding:  Granted I'm not an electrical expert but I would think there is a bigger current draw when cruise control is on, etc vs. off when there is less smoke and less juice needed to run the train. Without cruise control is when the sparking is at it's worst (at high speeds). 

Thanks again.

Applying Wahl oil

I apply just a single drop on the rail, then move down the track 10 or 15 feet and do another drop.  The trains do the spreading.  It takes very little.  You are NOT lubricating the rail or roller only increasing the 'contact' patch where the roller meets the rail.  On 2 rail layouts, with sparking wheels, this method also works but you need to apply a drop to both rails with the same spacing, every 10 to 15 feet.  Again just a drop and then run your trains.  

NOTICE this method does NOT clean the track or the wheels of your locos or cars, that you must do using regular methods, this is simply a 'fix' for sparking wheels.  Remember I call the 'sparking' a result of 'dry rail' NOT DIRTY RAIL.

I have also had some success with this method for trying to fix intermittent engine issues while using TMCC or DCS.  Seems that the 'sparking' might be causing some sort of communication issue.  Doesn't always work for this problem but when you are desperate you'll try anything, right!   Russ

As additional information, Atlas offers a VERY good super thing oil for lubricating pick-up rollers, etc. It is called "ElectroLube", and my local hobby shop carries it. I use it a lot on all pick-up rollers & their axles, plus I even use it during winter for the bird bath electric heater plug & receptacle. The stuff works great.

Thanks

I ordered some and will give it a try

Dale H