Speaker In The Boiler???

 I think I heard that some of the Lionel Vision steamers have them in the boiler? Someone made mention of three speakers in a post. I believe there's enough room now as small speaker technology has come a long way.

 I have some G scale engines with all kinds of room and they still have the sound from the tender. Even the grandkids when hearing them for the first time, asked why the sound comes out the back?

I Googled "8 Ohm Oval Speaker" and got a bunch of hits, are there any other resistance values of speakers in our engines?  Some of the speakers I saw were 5/16" tall, 13/16" wide, and 1-9/16" long, pretty small and would fit in a MTH RK 2-8-0 boiler I believe.  Not sure what the wattage was.

A number of them were for SoundTraxx systems and had different "Frequency Response" ranges.  Not sure what "range" our O scale stuff would need to be in.

I'm not sure what you mean. The resistance of the speaker ideally should match the amp to get the most watts out of it. MTH PS2 3v boards are 4 ohm optimum. So you could have 1- 4ohm speaker, or 2- 8 ohm speakers in parallel, etc to get to that 4 ohm target.

http://www.parts-express.com/c...ll-range-speakers/16

There are a lot of good choices out there that could be used. Match the size and impedance with your target.

Frequency range is as wide as possible I would think. They are measured in db drop offs and are hard to make sense of. Some of the new small speakers, like visatron makes for ex, have good bass for their size.

 I was amazed at how wide the frequencies were produced by my one gauge Challenger. From crisp highs to deep lows. Pretty much limited by the speaker and enclosure.

Would that trade pulling capacity for sound location?

I'm no electrical engineer, by a long shot, but I sure would be careful about confusing "resistance" with "impedance" when it comes to matching speakers. As I recall, one can NOT measure the "impedance" of a speaker with a simple Ohm meter. 

Also, it was the Lionel "vision Line" UP Challenger model that incorporated an additional speaker, forward in the boiler someplace. 

Audio "systems" has never been my cup-o-tea, I think my stereo still has "Ichiban Hi-Fidelity" stamped on it

I'm not even sure what's presently in my trains.

Martin, it may very well affect pulling power if I replace the weight with a speaker.  If I find one that fits I'll weigh it and compare.  I could always add some low-temp weight that I could form inside the cavity.

The next thing would be to sort out the wiring so the speaker wires would go forward instead of back in the tender.  I'll most likely install PS2 and the only way I see to do it is to cut off the harness sheathing, run the speaker wires in with the wires to the engine, and wrap it with a piece of spiral wrap for wires.

I've mounted 1.25" round speakers in the smokebox of a pair of Key PRR H class consolidations.  The speakers have baffles and sit horizontally pointed up the stack.  Needless to say - no smoke....  In doing so I trade off some sound quality offered by larger tender mounted speakers - but it is very apparent that the stack talk is coming from the right place.  This is especially noticeable on a walk around style railroad with track relatively close to the aisles.  I also find less volume is better during operation sessions with multiple trains are running on the railroad for several hours.  As I equip more locomotives with DCC sound I'll continue to mount speakers in the smokebox.  

Ed Rappe

PS I've found I can mount the decoder in the boiler without sacrificing weight, while minimizing the need for electrical connections to the tender.

Selection of speakers from Dallee  Electronics. Note that the wattage of each speaker is listed. It would be interesting to know power (watts) capacity of the sound board/sound power board of the Lionel systems.   I've also replaced several Atlas SW9 model speakers with an Atlas replacement part that seems to work well.

Atlas part installed in one end of a Rich Yoder GE 44 tonner.

If you can put the mids and highs in the boiler then put the lows in the tender.   Bass is non directional and the volume of the tender should provide some decent lows with a little design work.  

I Googled "Mounting Speakers in an O scale Steam Engine", here's one of the hits I got:

http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/speakers.htm

It deals with DCC, but I would think it could also apply to TMCC or PS2/3.  I need to read more (just found it and wanted to bring it to your attention).

Some more good information:

http://www.dccconcepts.com/ind...soundinstalltips.htm

I'm 2 rail DCC.  But, the space in 2 and 3 rail steam engines is mostly the same.  So, should apply.  For what it's worth.

In my Sunset UP 844 I put two QSI Super Bass speakers in an enclosure in the tender.  

Then I placed a 1.25" speaker in the boiler.  Mounted it on the rear of the big cylindrical weight facing backwards (to the cab).  Used double sided tape.  This speaker came from ERR and was left over from my 3RS days.

Since recent Sunset steam engines have Scott's belt driven Quiet Drive it allowed me the room for this.  

This would work nicely for those of you in 3RS with a similar engine who want a speaker in the boiler and want to keep a smoke unit. 

In my case I installed the QSI Titan Magnum 6 amp DCC decoder.  It has two totally independent 8 ohm audio output channels and a CV driven capability to balance the amplitude much like a studio sound board.  So, I have balanced out the sound and shifted it forward toward mid engine which helps a lot.

The result is much improved sound over just tender speakers. Bigger sound.  Sounds about the same as my former Lionel Vision Challenger which had a speaker somewhere in the boiler.  

Thanks Bill

That 2nd link I posted has some good info on speakers and sound in general.

I just got my parts for my Williams/Samhongsa 2-8-2 today so once I get them in place I can start deciding how I want to tackle the sound/control issue.

You're welcome, Bob.

Turns out I had lucked into those links you posted a while back and agree with you that they are excellent and very helpful for anyone installing command and sound.

Even if we get the fundamentals right, I found it helpful to try several speakers and enclosures and mounting methods as acoustics are complex.  I have a box of speakers as a result.  But, even the best aren't that expensive and many will find their way into future projects.

Here is a link that might be useful.  http://www.qsisolutions.com/ne...ers-sugg-100611.html

And down at the bottom of this page are some speaker reviews.

 http://www.qsisolutions.com/pr.../techinfo/index.html

Good luck with your project and keep us posted.

Thanks again Bill.

Sound coming out the stack of our steamers would be awesome, I hope I can get a speaker inside the Mikados boiler.

Several Years ago, Lionel offered Vision Line CHALLENGERS. These are really nice engines and the sounds are Super. They actually have an Echo Effect..I enjoy listening as this massive engine goes through its motions. It does make a difference.

I have one experience with a sound system in a boiler, and that is with my Smithsonian O Scale Lionel Hudson. It is a Dallee system, and the sound is almost inaudible. One reason might be that no consideration was given to how the sound would "get out"! It doesn't come from the stack.....

One reason might be that no consideration was given to how the sound would "get out"! It doesn't come from the stack

Thanks guys!  I think that would be a requirement in any scale or location of the speaker (even in the tender).

I just got back from my LHS Davis Hobby Supplies.  My old High School buddy, Bill "Bugs" Moran, works in there and while we were talking he started up some trains (N, HO, and O) and one was a DCC equipped HO diesel.  At first I couldn't tell which engine the sound was coming from, I thought it was the MTH RailKing 2-8-0 it was sound clear and loud.  If they can get a HO engine to sound that good, they ought to be able to do the same with any O scale engine on the market.

This might be the only time I am not unhappy about having only one ear.

With what seems like a constant 400 cycle buzz in both my ears (I'm blaming it on my shipyard days, working around 400 Hz generators), I'm surprised I can even hear a real train

Got to say, the N scale diesel (without sound) made no noise at all going around the track...s-m-o-o-t-h as silk.