Standard Gauge Super Motor Question?

I don't know for sure but if I had to make a "guess"I would say yes.  I would think Lionel would try to use that motor in as many applications as they could to save on new tooling.  

RonH posted:

Was the Lionel super motor ever used in a steam loco and if so what Lionel #?

I would say the answer to your question is no, but I would be open to being corrected by a Lionel expert, which I am not.

The early Lionel standard guage steam locomotives, the 5, 6, and 7, used an early motor before the super motor.  They were made until 1923 or so, the #5 may have continued until 1925.  

The super motor came out in 1923, but it was used in Lionel's new electric locomotives, first in the #8.  The super motor could not be used in the old #5, 6, or 7, their frames would not accomodate it.

In 1928, Lionel came out with the build-a-loco motor, and it was used first in the #9 electric loco.  

The #390 steam locomotive came out in 1929 and used the build-a-loco motor. This was the first steam standard gauge loco Lionel made since discontinuing the old-type #5.

There was a period (from 1923 or '25 to 1929) when Lionel did not make any steam locomotives in standard gauge; they made only electric locos.  

This "gap" roughly coincides with the super motor.  So Lionel steam locomotives "skip" the evolutionary step of the super motor: they went from the early-motor 5, 6, and 7 in the early 1920's, to the build-a-loco 390 and 384 in the late 1920's.

But Lionel is not my strongest point, so someone who really knows their Lionel Standard Gauge history should check my dates.

thanks

david

My 1835E has a Bild-A-Loco motor and I was told by a repairman that it was what they normally used. Thw 835 & 1835 were pretty common engines from what I have read.

hojack posted:

RonH posted:

Was the Lionel super motor ever used in a steam loco and if so what Lionel #?

I would say the answer to your question is no, but I would be open to being corrected by a Lionel expert, which I am not.

The early Lionel standard guage steam locomotives, the 5, 6, and 7, used an early motor before the super motor.  They were made until 1923 or so, the #5 may have continued until 1925.  

The super motor came out in 1923, but it was used in Lionel's new electric locomotives, first in the #8.  The super motor could not be used in the old #5, 6, or 7, their frames would not accomodate it.

In 1928, Lionel came out with the build-a-loco motor, and it was used first in the #9 electric loco.  

The #390 steam locomotive came out in 1929 and used the build-a-loco motor. This was the first steam standard gauge loco Lionel made since discontinuing the old-type #5.

There was a period (from 1923 or '25 to 1929) when Lionel did not make any steam locomotives in standard gauge; they made only electric locos.  

This "gap" roughly coincides with the super motor.  So Lionel steam locomotives "skip" the evolutionary step of the super motor: they went from the early-motor 5, 6, and 7 in the early 1920's, to the build-a-loco 390 and 384 in the late 1920's.

But Lionel is not my strongest point, so someone who really knows their Lionel Standard Gauge history should check my dates.

thanks

david

Thank you David, great answer.
The other question that I have is was any drivers used between the two wheels of the loco like some of the earlier electric had or was is just plain spoke wheels/no driver used.

RonH

There were two motor groups used in Steam locos, the early (called "new departure" I think) with the round coil, and later with the BAL motor. There were multiple type of both motors.

The early motors only drove one axle, the other was connected only via connecting rod.  The BAL motors always drove both axles.  All drivers were spoked, First cast iron, then Die Cast.

Thanks for the info.

RonH posted:

Was the Lionel super motor ever used in a steam loco and if so what Lionel #?

No. However, there were some electrics that came with the Bild-A-Loco motor.

If I'm reading your later question correctly, Standard Ga drivers were always spoked. Occasionally, you'll see a disc wheel but those were home made on a lathe, usually of brass or aluminum.

Tin

BAL always in later std steam locos, or any that used the removable type motor. BAL  WAS USED in most 9, 9u and 9e but super motor used in some 9es, a 10e and a 318e version also used  bal  motor, and some 408e used two bals motors. All 8 and 8e, all 318, and most 318e all 402 402e, most 408e, used super motors. Usually when BAL used the electric style Loco had an overhead contact for energizing the headlights. 381 381 e and 381u all used  BALL motors. I have examples of all of these interesting conglomeration of motors. Later the  BAL MOTOR PLATE WAS CHANGED and no longer called bild a Loco