Steam engine

I think there is (was?) another one in a park in Washington Court House, Ohio.

jim pastorius posted:

Quite some time ago I took photos of a big steam engine sitting in a park in Newport News, Va.  It looked in decent shape surrounded by a fence. The engine was marked as a C&O 2756, a 2-8-4. Does anyone know if the engine is still there  ??  I don't get down that way any more and was curious.  A nice size to restore for running.

I've seen something on Facebook about this engine as recently as yesterday. Haven't clicked on it though. There is also a C&O Berk in a park in Lynchburg, Va.

I Googled it and, as of 2012, it was still in the park. Huntington Park, home of the War Memorial Museum. The museum is an excellent  place to see  military equipment if you are ever in the  area.

The C&O # 2716 (Alco) is under roof, and they are starting a resto in hopes they can operate it again.....Now that Hunter Harrison is suppose to be getting ready to head up the CSX Railroad, no way will they even let it on their Tracks, and unless they could truck it away some how, they would have to use the CSX Trackage to get from it's home in New Haven, Ky. The Kentucky Steam Heritage Group is working on a possible place in the Lexington, Ky area to finish the engine, if and when they can get it there............Speculations are the RJ Corman Property adjacent to the rail line in Lexington........I hope it does work out for them, as they could quickly get the engine to the Norfolk Southern Trackage in Lexington, when the engine is finished, and ready to go......

jim pastorius posted:

Quite some time ago I took photos of a big steam engine sitting in a park in Newport News, Va.  It looked in decent shape surrounded by a fence. The engine was marked as a C&O 2756, a 2-8-4. Does anyone know if the engine is still there  ??  I don't get down that way any more and was curious.  A nice size to restore for running.

Considering both 765 and 1225 are both 2-8-4 locomotives already operating and another C&O 2-8-4 is undergoing a restoration I'd have to question wanting to restore another one. 

You never know when you might need one !!

The Bellcaptain posted:

jim pastorius posted:

Quite some time ago I took photos of a big steam engine sitting in a park in Newport News, Va.  It looked in decent shape surrounded by a fence. The engine was marked as a C&O 2756, a 2-8-4. Does anyone know if the engine is still there  ??  I don't get down that way any more and was curious.  A nice size to restore for running.

Considering both 765 and 1225 are both 2-8-4 locomotives already operating and another C&O 2-8-4 is undergoing a restoration I'd have to question wanting to restore another one. 

The 765 and 1225 are berkshire locomotives... the 2756 is a Kanawha... big difference.

J Daddy posted:

The Bellcaptain posted:

jim pastorius posted:

Quite some time ago I took photos of a big steam engine sitting in a park in Newport News, Va.  It looked in decent shape surrounded by a fence. The engine was marked as a C&O 2756, a 2-8-4. Does anyone know if the engine is still there  ??  I don't get down that way any more and was curious.  A nice size to restore for running.

Considering both 765 and 1225 are both 2-8-4 locomotives already operating and another C&O 2-8-4 is undergoing a restoration I'd have to question wanting to restore another one. 

The 765 and 1225 are berkshire locomotives... the 2756 is a Kanawha... big difference.

Really? Please explain to all of us what the wheel arrangement is on the 765 & 1225, as compared to that 2756!

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...icture.aspx?id=69804

J Daddy posted:

The Bellcaptain posted:

jim pastorius posted:

Quite some time ago I took photos of a big steam engine sitting in a park in Newport News, Va.  It looked in decent shape surrounded by a fence. The engine was marked as a C&O 2756, a 2-8-4. Does anyone know if the engine is still there  ??  I don't get down that way any more and was curious.  A nice size to restore for running.

Considering both 765 and 1225 are both 2-8-4 locomotives already operating and another C&O 2-8-4 is undergoing a restoration I'd have to question wanting to restore another one. 

The 765 and 1225 are berkshire locomotives... the 2756 is a Kanawha... big difference.

I seem to recall all three are also Van Sweringen Advisory Mechanical Committee 2-8-4's.

Rusty

Hot Water posted:

J Daddy posted:

The Bellcaptain posted:

jim pastorius posted:

Quite some time ago I took photos of a big steam engine sitting in a park in Newport News, Va.  It looked in decent shape surrounded by a fence. The engine was marked as a C&O 2756, a 2-8-4. Does anyone know if the engine is still there  ??  I don't get down that way any more and was curious.  A nice size to restore for running.

Considering both 765 and 1225 are both 2-8-4 locomotives already operating and another C&O 2-8-4 is undergoing a restoration I'd have to question wanting to restore another one. 

The 765 and 1225 are berkshire locomotives... the 2756 is a Kanawha... big difference.

Really? Please explain to all of us what the wheel arrangement is on the 765 & 1225, as compared to that 2756!

I suspect (though can't prove) that he was trying to be funny--like claiming that Mikados and McArthurs are "completely different engines." That's where these come in handy:

I looked closely at the more recent pictures of the 2756 and it sure has gone down hill in the last 10 or so years from when I took  mine. A shame. I doubt if they would ever be able to get that engine out of there without dismantling it. 

CSX is the only US class 1 railroad currently hostile to steam. The other three permit steam, and UP just allows its own steam on its tracks. What exactly is the policy on excursions in general on CSX? Do they allow Amtrak charters because the Collis P. Huntington operates excursions out of WV on CSX even toward D.C. and NY over Amtrak. Using Amtrak diesel units for power. How about MARC charters? Rent a MARC train and run from Washington or Baltimore to Cumberland and back for example. Too bad that CSX is afraid of steam locomotives. The whole corridor from D.C. to Philly and D.C. to Florida cannot have any steam because the only railroads are CSX and Amtrak. Amtrak probably won't allow any steam on the NEC, any line with wires overhead that it owns. Hunter if he takes over will simply continue CSX's steam ban since he is a steam hater and killed CP's steam program. He is a cost cutter and cuts jobs, and anything frivolous that he sees as zero benefit to the company, such as steam excursions, but he allowed the CP holiday train to continue.

HH is a cutter and slasher. Doesn't build anything. BTO that wants to be on the big stage.

The lack of real steam excursions in the North East stinks.  I mean I have the New Hope and Ivy Land and Black River and Western close to me but they don't run at any real speed.  

The Northeast corridor (at least from Trenton to NY Penn) is all track with concrete ties.  Someone correct me if I am wrong but I can't imagine concrete ties will stand up to steam very long.  Could that be the main reason for the Steam ban?  Amtrak put the high speed rail with concrete ties in some years ago.  They recently (past 10 years) had to replace most if not all of it.  The original track and ties was suppose to last 50 years.  It started to fail much earlier than that and of course the manufacturer is now out of business.

As far as making money, I remember what the conductor on a #90 excursion out of Strasburg said once: "The difference between us and Amtrak is we make money".  

Does Norfolk Southern still allow steam?  The video's of NKP 765 seem to end around 2013.

Tony

I don't think there's any more weight on any axle of a big steam engine than there is on a 6 axle diesel. 

smd4 posted:

Hot Water posted:

J Daddy posted:

The Bellcaptain posted:

jim pastorius posted:

Quite some time ago I took photos of a big steam engine sitting in a park in Newport News, Va.  It looked in decent shape surrounded by a fence. The engine was marked as a C&O 2756, a 2-8-4. Does anyone know if the engine is still there  ??  I don't get down that way any more and was curious.  A nice size to restore for running.

Considering both 765 and 1225 are both 2-8-4 locomotives already operating and another C&O 2-8-4 is undergoing a restoration I'd have to question wanting to restore another one. 

The 765 and 1225 are berkshire locomotives... the 2756 is a Kanawha... big difference.

Really? Please explain to all of us what the wheel arrangement is on the 765 & 1225, as compared to that 2756!

I suspect (though can't prove) that he was trying to be funny--like claiming that Mikados and McArthurs are "completely different engines." That's where these come in handy:

Sorry guys... somethings are just way to easy.

Tony, the 611 is still running on NS this year in the spring but only in southern Virginia and northern NC. So, you'll need to take a weekend trip, long drive down to Roanoke, Lynchburg, or Greensboro and stay overnight in a hotel. That is the only mainline steam east of the Mississippi this year except the normal tourist railroads that operate longer steam excursions like Reading and Northern and TVRM, and now Great Smoky Mountain Railroad in NC again. Also, C&O 1309 operates this July at Cumberland, MD on 32 mile trips to Frostburg and back. Most of the former WM west of Hagerstown was ripped up years ago, parts of it are maintained rail trails, other parts like east of Cumberland so far down and into WV toward Elkins except for one existing segment are unmaintained and unwalkable in spots due to high bridges with just girders and no safe waking surface, closed tunnels, and overgrown ROW, and private property. WMSR could only get the 16 miles to Frostburg in the late 1980's, the rest of the WM to Connellsville, Hagerstown, and into WV towards Elkins was ripped up in 1976. The last time 765 ran a public excursion on NS was when it came to my area of Allentown, PA in August, 2015 they ran two trips to Pittston, PA and back over NS and the RBMN. I rode it. I rode behind 611 last year from Manassas, 102 mile trip, but they aren't doing that run this year. Manassas, VA is about 25 miles west of Washington, DC.

There are 12 C & O 2700 series 2-8-4's in existence, 6 NKP 700 series 2-8-4's in existence, and 2 PM 1200 series 2-8-4's.  They are all to a similar design laid out by the Advisory Mechanical Committee, but there are differences.  The tender bearings are massive 7 x 14's on the C&O and the rigid staybolts are longer on the C&O that they are on the NKP.  FWRHS discovered that when the 2716 was in use.  There were some staybolts to replace on the 2716.  Excess stock for the 765 was on hand, AND THEY WERE NOT LONG ENOUGH!  The Worthington Feedwater Heater Pump on the C&O engines were a larger size than on the NKP.

Tony_V posted:

The Northeast corridor (at least from Trenton to NY Penn) is all track with concrete ties.  Someone correct me if I am wrong but I can't imagine concrete ties will stand up to steam very long.  

Why would you think that concrete ties wouldn't stand up to a steam engine?

The axle loading on a typical modern steam locomotive is about 66,000 pounds per axle. A typical SD40-2 has an axle loading around 72,000 pounds. A 286,000 pound freight car (very common) has an axle loading of 71,500 pounds. And a 315,000 pound freight car has an axle load of 78,750 pounds.

If you are thinking that the "pounding" effect on the ties is the problem, that's a non-issue, too. Modern steam locomotives like 765, 611, 261, 4449, etc. do not harm the track in any way. They are well balanced, so impact loads to the track structure are almost non-existent. They ride about the same as a diesel and do not involve any significant impact loads to the rails.

It's unlikely you'll see a steam locomotive on the corridor because of the traffic density there. The hundreds of commuter and long distance trains that travel that route every day leave precious little room for an excursion train on that line.

The video's of NKP 765 seem to end around 2013.

You're not looking hard enough. Here's a short clip from last year...at 70 mph! And there are LOTS more where this came from.

OGR Webmaster posted:

The video's of NKP 765 seem to end around 2013.

You're not looking hard enough. Here's a short clip from last year...at 70 mph! And there are LOTS more where this came from.

I can side with that!

Rich, thanks for a great show on July 18, 2015! That was the first time I had seen 765, or any big steam locomotive in motion, and it left a lasting impression on me.

OGR Webmaster posted:

Tony_V posted:

The Northeast corridor (at least from Trenton to NY Penn) is all track with concrete ties.  Someone correct me if I am wrong but I can't imagine concrete ties will stand up to steam very long.  

Why would you think that concrete ties wouldn't stand up to a steam engine?

The axle loading on a typical modern steam locomotive is about 66,000 pounds per axle. A typical SD40-2 has an axle loading around 72,000 pounds. A 286,000 pound freight car (very common) has an axle loading of 71,500 pounds. And a 315,000 pound freight car has an axle load of 78,750 pounds.

If you are thinking that the "pounding" effect on the ties is the problem, that's a non-issue, too. Modern steam locomotives like 765, 611, 261, 4449, etc. do not harm the track in any way. They are well balanced, so impact loads to the track structure are almost non-existent. They ride about the same as a diesel and do not involve any significant impact loads to the rails.

It's unlikely you'll see a steam locomotive on the corridor because of the traffic density there. The hundreds of commuter and long distance trains that travel that route every day leave precious little room for an excursion train on that line.

The video's of NKP 765 seem to end around 2013.

You're not looking hard enough. Here's a short clip from last year...at 70 mph! And there are LOTS more where this came from.

Corrected!!!  LOL.  

Rich, the pounding of the rails is what I was referring to.  You are right about traffic on the NEC.  Somewhere I read it's the busiest stretch of track in the world.  It thins out on the weekends though.  I know Bennett Levin has gotten time on the NEC with his E8's.  

As far as NKP 765, I'm glad she is still running.  I guess I just didn't look at enough videos.

Tony

The Bellcaptain posted:

jim pastorius posted:

Quite some time ago I took photos of a big steam engine sitting in a park in Newport News, Va.  It looked in decent shape surrounded by a fence. The engine was marked as a C&O 2756, a 2-8-4. Does anyone know if the engine is still there  ??  I don't get down that way any more and was curious.  A nice size to restore for running.

Considering both 765 and 1225 are both 2-8-4 locomotives already operating and another C&O 2-8-4 is undergoing a restoration I'd have to question wanting to restore another one. 

This #2716 Resto is being done by some C&O, and L&N enthusiast, and they have already done a mock up making this engine look like one of the L&N "Big Emmas". They say when done, that can do a quick change for this engine to be as the "Bill Purdy" Southern Railway style, L&N Style, or the Original C&O........They may use the "Big Emma" style hoping for leverage with the CSX........I for one loved the 765 when they made it look like the C&O #2765........Time will tell for sure............

Brandy posted:

I for one loved the 765 when they made it look like the C&O #2765........Time will tell for sure............

I was at the 765 shops in New Haven once, and I was poking around in some old signs on a table. I saw something gold. I recognized it immediately because it read: 2716. I had found the number board from 1993. I'll see if I can find the picture of it I took.