Steam engine firing

The coal pushed up from the transfer auger into a brick lined "pot" and was blown about the fire box by a steam jet.  This would be augmented by an occasional shovel of coal by the fireman to fill any thin spots on the grate.

First, there may be a misconception of "evenly distributing" the coal in the firebox. The natural vibration, as well as the drafting, tend to cause the hot coals to move forward on the grates, when the locomotive is working. Thus, on a hand fired locomotive, the Fireman will shovel in a "horseshoe pattern", i.e. throwing coal down one side, then across the back (more heavily in each back corner), then down the other side, with only a few scoop-fulls spread in the middle portion.

With a stoker fire locomotive, the Fireman does the same basic process by adjusting the force of the steam jets which blow the coal across the fire bed, i.e. higher steam pressure blows the coal more forward (away from the fire door), and less pressure not so far. The Fireman will also shut off the distribution jets periodically, in order to produce a thick heal of coal at the rear of the firebox, which seals off cold air from drafting in around the stoker distributing pot.

Drydock & Hot Water thanks for the quick answers. I an assuming you had to manually

shovel coal to get the engine initially going? With a normal coal furnace you have to shake the ash's down periodically  would the draft keep the ashes clean enough to allow for good burning? I know you would dump the ash pan from time to time.  

This link is to a boiler backhead pic of the DMIR Yellowstone 2-8-8-4 at Lake Superior Railroad museum.(Mechanical stoker) Correct me if I'm wrong somebody, but I believe the mess of valve handles on the fireman's side (left) are the firebox steam jet controls.

http://tinyurl.com/pwvc4ug

Take a look at the attached PDF file. It will explain a LOT.

The PDF is a much larger version of this:

Thanks Rich!

And as I never said to my wife, "Hey, I was right!"

The only thing I ever say to my wife is, "Honey...I'm sorry." 

It's worked for 46 years!

Hi Rich -

The young engineer in me has a few questions on the diagram you posted.

1. Feedwater pump throttle – Where is the water being pumped to? Directly to the boiler/the injector/somewhere else?

5. What do the water column/tri-cocks do?

10. Feedwater pump gauge – Pressure or flow rate?

11. Plate indicating the top of the crown sheet – I’m not sure what this means… I know where the crown sheet is.

17. What does the bell valve do?

Thanks Rich.

Rich,

Old marine and power plant steam guy here, who just did some reading up on 765. Magnificent machine, and what a great ongoing effort by the historical group. I hope I get to visit and climb around that cab sometime. Engineer classes maybe? Yeah, sign me up 

When was the last time FWRHS used the steam heat regulator?

I don't remember when we last used the steam heat. We removed it, along with the steam heat piping, many years ago and we will never use it again. HEP eliminates the need for steam heat these days.

Rich Thanks for the photo are the controls all in a pretty much standard location between all steam engines, or by manufacturer, or where the pipe fitter could make them fit?

There was very little standardization in steam locomotive cabs. While some things were often found in the same places (throttle, reverse gear, etc.) other things could be in very different places.

Controls between similar locomotive models were probably about the same unless otherwise specified.  Obviously the controls the engineer would need to operate the locomotive would always be on their side.

I'm a fireman on a railroad that operates three different locomotives.  An 0-6-4T built by Mason in 1873, as well as two 4-4-0's.  The large 4-4-0 was built by Baldwin for the Detroit and Lima Northern railway in 1897.  The smaller one was built in the Ford Rouge plant locomotive shop using an 1860's Manchester 0-4-0 as a base.  The controls in the two 4-4-0's are essentially in the same positions.  The small 4-4-0 was modernized several years ago with a dynamo, electric head light and cab lights, so it does have some valves that our bigger 4-4-0 doesn't have.  Obviously the Mason's cab layout is also very different due to its design.  It's an articulated locomotive, so the firebox is essentially fully enclosed within the cab, with the engineer sitting next to it with the controls on top. The general area of the controls in that case is somewhat similar to the 4-4-0's, but not completely the same.

Good evening everyone, what amazes me is all of this steam technology with all it pumps and valves, bore and stroke and stokers etc etc were all developed with no computers, no calculators or any other modern item that we have today.

The men that developed these items were either steam wizards, or highly educated individuals with great understanding of steam or just lucky.

Either way to me it's amazing.

In the video Listen for the Whistle at the end of the video the gentlemen (one of 765 crew members) makes the remark that in it's day the Nickel Plate Road 765 and other steam engines were the cutting edge of technology.

Sorry Rich I can't remember the gentlemen name and I am not home to go watch the video again.

As a mechanic by trade I just find this technology, "maybe primitive compared to todays standards" just simply amazing due to the fact on how it was developed.

Sorry not to stray to far from the content of this post.

Rich and SantaFe158 thanks for the info.

Attached is a link to an article on how a Steam engine is fired up from a cold start. Its been around a while, but its an interesting and entertraining read. Enjoy!
http://gcrm.org/index.php/26-m...t-a-steam-locomotive

The photo of the cab interior of 765 brings to mind a tale that appeared in Railfan Magazine, following the operation of 765 on the Chicago & North Western in 1982. Seems a young diesel-era hostler got into the cab of 765 and said "I can run anything on this railroad". He settled in the engineer's seat, studied the array of valves, levers, gauges, pipes, etc, and was quiet for a bit of time. Finally, he said "How do ya make this thing go??"  !!

I believe it was Gary Bensman quoting a history professor in the early 1900's 'We must welcome the future realizing that soon it will be the past; and we must respect the past knowing that once it was all that is humanly possible'.

That is a good read. There are fewer and fewer people out there who understand this stuff. I found there's nothing more frustrating than explaining to - ahem - "educated" engineer types that boilers just don't get up and go. Modern power plant steam generators are one thing, but firetube boilers are almost as old-school as you can get. 

In one old job, I was asked to prepare an evacuation procedure in case of a boiler explosion.

I wrote: "Step 1 - stick head between knees."

            "Step 2 - kiss your .................."  (you know the rest)

You nailed it Brad word for word.

Thanks !!!!!

I know that 765 and a few of the other 700's were equipped to haul passenger trains during the war.  Was this factory equipped, or added by the NKP? If it was added later, I guess removing it actully takes 765 back closer to "as built" condition?

Well, while there WERE a lot of smart people involved, steam locomtive building was as much art as it was science, at LEAST until the 1920's, and sometimes they got it QUITE wrong.

Noticed a "back pressure gauge" in the 765 cab. Rich has alluded to the

back pressure in "Running That New River Train". I would guess this is

residual pressure in the cylinder when open to exhaust port?

What is the significance of back pressure and how would knowing it affect

how an engineer handles the train?

Thanks!

Rich,

On the 765 the boiler pressure is 245 psi  ( wikipedia) and the feed water pumps have to overcome the boiler pressure to feed the water correct??  What is the maximum consumption of water and the maximum flow rate to the boiler?

Larry

The NKP S-2's class were built as freight haulers in 1944.  What with a lot of troop trains to handle and the Hudsons were not quite powerful enough nor enough of them, the NKP soon after decided to equip some of the new S-2's with steam heat and air signal lines.  That is when the steam regulating valve was added.  It is gone now- after the overhaul that began her Third Career.  No more steam heat trains! 

The "Office" picture is not quite up to date.  In 2012 a PRR type cab signal system was added and it is prominently mounted in the middle of the cab - directly above the dual face steam gauge.  The old speedometer has been replaced with a new model and an Event Recorder has been added.